On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Tamara Hawkins <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

>  Hi Jaye,
>
> Thank you for your response. I realize that the comments was harsh because
> I felt so bad for this mom. I was pissed that an LC would counsel a mom in
> that manner--to have her change feeding plans without  examining her
> and pass judgement on what she was or wasn't doing. I spent hours with her
> over the past 3 days trying to help her get her breastfeeding right. She was
> sent for a tail spin and suffered for awhile after the conversation.
>
> I referred to my training and how I was made to be distrustful because it
> didn't help me as a practitioner and it sure does not help anyone else to be
> made to feel distrustful of anyone. Its not empowering.
>
> I work all day cleaning up  misinterpreted info here in the hospital as
> well. We also are working on a peds and OB breastfeeding rotation. So I do
> know the lack of advance breastfeeding assistance available in hospitals but
> at least where I work peds counsel women according to AAP guidelines. They
> have improved tremendously in their support. And an important point for
> everyone to remember is the breasts, baby, and nipples change eveyday.
> Therefore, what someone may see on day 5 may look completely different on
> day 2, which I'm sure you know.
>
> So, to get to the point. I was ranting about information that is not
> tailored made for a particular mother given out like "if I works for one, it
> will work for another". We can not tolerate that type of care in any
> service.
>
> I apologize if I offended you but I was hoping to reach the ppl who do
> practice that way. There is no denying  the judgment that is passed on
> breast vs bottle feeding. I was not addressing this post as an attack on
> lactnet. I was just asking for input.
>
> I thank you
> oh and thank you for the prayer too :)
> Tamara Hawkins
>
>   On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Jaye Simpson, IBCLC <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hmmm....Tamera.  Respectfully:
>>
>> I am baffled by your comments and the rather harsh statements:
>>
>> "So please, stop passing judgment and making mothers feels bad. She does
>> not
>> have to be experiencing what you read in a breastfeeding text book. If you
>> are that concerned and upset about what you are hearing, offer your
>> services
>> for free and come help her out with every feeding."
>>
>> Quite honestly - this is a rather insulting comment to those of us on this
>> particular list especially because MANY of us do give away our services
>> for
>> free regularly.  I am one of them.  Many of us are actively working to
>> educate those MD's and nurses who ARE out there giving poor information,
>> wrong information and compromise the breastfeeding relationship sometimes
>> completely ending it.  No one here passes judgment so much as venting our
>> frustration with those who should know and clearly do not.
>>
>> The simple fact here is that there is little to no Breastfeeding education
>> in Med school and what there is in nursing school, from what I am told, is
>> pathetic at best depending on the program you are in.  HCP breastfeeding
>> education is dependant upon the HCP taking it upon him/herself to get a
>> decent, solid education in Lactation.  Breastfeeding is one aspect of
>> healthcare that should be MANDATORY education for EVERYONE entering the
>> medical field regardless of the specialty.
>>
>> Next - No one I know is stupid enough to counsel a mom in the manner you
>> are
>> suggesting they do.  Most of us have the brains to realize that we do not
>> always know what is going on in the hospital when mom calls us.  Most of
>> us
>> will tell mom to do what she needs to do to get baby healthy and home and
>> we
>> will work on the BF issues later.  Also, most of us are quite well aware
>> of
>> the fact that many hospital births end up with mother's experiencing
>> abnormally late arrival of the milk.   Rule #1 - as Coach Smith has taught
>> many of us:  Feed the Baby.
>>
>> In regards to papers etc - do a search of Lactnet Archives.  You will find
>> a
>> plethora of information there.  No need for anyone here to do that work
>> for
>> you - do it yourself.   The tone of your post really rubbed me wrong I
>> will
>> say and I wonder how many others it did too.  I work my butt off cleaning
>> up
>> the train-wrecks created by those Dr's and nurse's and other IBCLC's who
>> do
>> not know what the heck they are doing, and who are regularly giving out
>> wrong information, who don't even give a baby a chance to latch to a
>> (so-called) 'flat-nipple and instead throw a nipple shield, sns and/or
>> bottle in the way first.  I work my butt of to clear up the misinformation
>> that is rampant out there:  "you can't take ibuprofen while
>> breastfeeding",
>> "You can't breastfeeding with inverted nipples", "You must be induced with
>> twins at 37 wks", "You can't BF with flat nipples", "You can't BF - you're
>> too old", "You won't have enough milk - you're too old/young", "Your baby
>> needs to be fed NOW!  He's an hour old and is starving and hasn't latched
>> yet - let's give him an ounce", "Formula is just as good as breastmilk -
>> there is no difference". My list of crap like this I have heard goes back
>> 15
>> yrs now and for many of us even longer have we been dealing with this
>> nonsense.  Someone MUST be out there giving the PROPER and CORRECT
>> education
>> to counter the countless crap that is told to mothers daily that
>> compromises
>> breastfeeding sometimes to the point of ending it prematurely.
>>
>> So - please be careful how you tone your posts.  Go back and re-read
>> before
>> you send.  The tone was insulting, offensive and just plain not nice and
>> all
>> I can pray for is that you did not mean it that way.  I've known the women
>> and men on this list for nigh on 15 yrs now and I am very proud to know
>> them.  These are GOOD people who do GREAT work.  And as an avid reader of
>> Lactnet that you say you are, perhaps you might consider going back and
>> re-reading and 'feeling' OUR frustrations, OUR pain at knowing women and
>> babies are being harmed needlessly and OUR anger that moms and babies are
>> being harmed needlessly out of a simple lack of education by those who
>> SHOULD have that education and SHOULD know better.  Then perhaps you will
>> actually understand what we are saying and that we are not the bad guys
>> here
>> as your post seems to make us out to be.
>>
>> Jaye Simpson, IBCLC, CIIM
>> Breastfeeding Network
>> Sacramento, CA
>> www.breastfeedingnetwork.net
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tamara Hawkins [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:33 AM
>> Subject: Phone consults
>>
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> What is the ethical and legal implications of advising a breastfeeding
>> mother over the phone and telling her to do something against what her
>> team
>> of care providers who are counseling her, examining her, and working with
>> her everyday and multiple times during day while still hospitalized?
>>
>> Do you tell a mom to stop supplementing because "she has more colostrum
>> than
>> she knows" before a meeting, an exam?
>>
>> I am an avid reader of lactnet but sometimes I get peeved when people get
>> on
>> their high horse and blame everybody else and force a mistrust of other
>> people's judgement. I remember as I was training to become an IBCLC, I
>> received messages that MDS and nurses were not to be trusted, "don't let
>> anyone tell you your baby can't breastfeed if you have flat nipple" among
>> other statements I heard. Well guess what. When women in classes only hear
>> messages such as these, they become problem focused, defensive, anxious,
>> depressed, closed minded, and unable to work on a solution. Let's prepare
>> them to solve any problems they may encounter.
>> ... ... ...
>>  So please, stop passing judgment and making mothers feels bad. She does
>> not
>> have to be experiencing what you read in a breastfeeding text book. If you
>> are that concerned and upset about what you are hearing, offer your
>> services
>> for free and come help her out with every feeding.
>>
>> I am baffled by this phenon I'm seeing...Where is the milk? Are there
>> trends
>> that are being researched? Are there any papers out there that you can
>> forward to me? But sadly yes, I see many many mothers 3-5 days pp with no
>> clinical signs of lactogenesis. Unfortunately, those babies need
>> supplementation.
>>
>> I look forward to your comments.
>>
>> Tamara NYC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 646-334-3830
> www.storkandcradle.com
>



-- 
646-334-3830
www.storkandcradle.com

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