<Quotes from various people>
 
> My point in this short story made long is that the origin of the
> bees  doesn't seem to relate to survivability in my experience.
> My suspicion  is that it is most closely related to the breed, but I
> don't have enough knowledge on this topic to have any more
>  than a gut feeling.
 
Well, I think that the strain does have an effect.  I tend to believe
that some bees (carniolans?) are reputed to have longer individual
lifespans, and that this may be true.
 
I think also that -- generally speaking --  there are some bees
known to be terrible winterers and avoiding them is more important
than finding the perfect strain that winters best.
 
For example: AHB is not likely a candidate for wintering in Alaska.
Some NZ strains are known to winter horribly in Canada.  (Having said
that, I am putting some NZ stock into winter and I worry about that).
 
However, there are several other factors which are likely more
important.
 
> Actually, especially on the west coast, a lot of the breeders
> were selected from Canadian stock in past years.  I don't know if that is
> still going on, but the genetic remnants are probably still with us.
 
That was during package days, and wintering was not a factor in
selection because bees were gassed in canada before winter. In the
California/Canada trade, bees were generally selected for production
first and colour second, and maybe a few other things if anyone got
around to it.
 
As far as Canadian strains are concerned: the Hastings bees were
developed and maintained for many years in Northern Saskatchewan and
wintered very well.  Sadly that has likely changed character due to
dilution since moving south, but they may bear some examination.
 
> Personally, for my own use (here in southeastern USA), I've
> generally had better luck with my own queens than with boughten ones.
> I'm sure I am not any more skilled in the process, just that I chose bees
> adapted to my locale and management style, whenever I choose the
> bees that do best in my operation.
 
I was sitting around in my kitchen with my wife and a well known
(and outspoken) world travelling  college instructor / successful
commercial beekeeper the other night.  This very subject came up.
(He shall remain nameless due to the random abuse that descends on
the name of anyone who even appears to question the current bee
gospel and the wisdom of some beekeepers/bee breeders)
 
In a nutshell, he said that any competent beekeeper is likely to do
a better job of raising queens than many (most at times) commercial
outfits.  This is due to *humility*, attention, and caring.  He also
indicated that he believes that much of the talk about special
strains and hybrids is more marketing than science.  (Not only
commercial breeders, but also* researchers* need to market their
output or go out of business).
 
That is not to say that these people are deliberately dishonest, but
that hope and need tends to blur objectivity and develop faith that
is stronger than objective observation.
 
And that is *not* to say that there are not differences between
strains, or that selection of breeding stock is not important, but
that any beekeeper can do a good job and get pretty good or even
superior  results.
 
I know I was astounded at the improvement in our bees the first time
we started raising our own queens.
 
Having said that, I return to the subject: wintering.  In addition to
having a strain of bees that are selected for not having terrible
wintering characteristics, several other equally important factors
must be considered:  Nutrition, population demographics, and health.
 
Bees need immense amounts of balanced protein and they usually make
do with what is in the locale.  This means that they may be
chronically undernourished.  This condition is not immediately
apparent, unless one has a clear idea of what well nourished bees
look like; they are bigger, stronger, and smarter.
 
It is not enough to just have good forage or feed supplements for a
week or two now and then, but to build and maintain  a powerful
hive, good nutrition must bee available for several generations and
preferrably continuously during the year.  Any lapse in good feed
will weaken the colony and make it more subject to disease and
environment.
 
Where summers are short, hives may lack adequate protein for months
before actual wintering starts and months after winter appears to
end.  Some pollens such as dandelion, although bountiful, simply are
a bandage due to inadequate nutitive value.
 
You can see that in most places that ideal conditions are impossible
to achieve.  This is especially true in the north.  Many generations
of bees are reared during a subsistence  period where forage is not
available, and the bees must rely on stored food or feed provided by
the beekeeper.
 
Moreover, the bees have a problem disposing of the fecal matter that
accumulates from eating -- especially if a lot of poor quality food
is required to meet the minimum needs.
 
There was somewhere on the web, for some time,  an article about hives
petering out on strong flows in Aus due to lack of protein.  I think
Nick had put it up.  The lesson implicit in that study applies in
spades to bees wintering -- whether indoors or out.
 
Anyhow, good food is critical during the preparation period as well as
the wintering period.  Since some bees do a better job of preparation
of the brood chamber than others, they may winter better.
 
Splits may do a better job due to younger queens, and the fact that
they keep their feed closer to the brood area.  They may also have
younger and less diseased populations due to the recent rapid
buildup -- if they have had access to good pollen.
 
Production hives that have peaked may have cut their brood rearing
to the point where bees the majority of bees are old.  This results
in rapid feed consumption in the early wintering, and then population
decline.
 
There is no direct correlation between population size going into
wintering and populations coming out.  There is some relationship --
just not a direct one.  The consideration is whether the cluster is
large enough -- and composed of young, well nourshed, healty bees --
to survive comfortably.  If so, the cluster at end of wintering
should be large.
 
The last consideration is disease.  Well fed colonies with young
queens that have been checked for mites and had the mite populations
 maintained at low levels, and which have been treated with TM and
fumigillan should bee prime for wintering.
 
If they also come from bee stock not known for terrible wintering,
that is a bonus.
 
Regards
 
Allen
 
W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper                                         VE6CFK
RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta  Canada T0M 1Y0
Internet:[log in to unmask] & [log in to unmask]
Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/>