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Absolutely. But I was obviously being facetious in the cockroach analogy. Then again, I seriously don't give us another 100,000 years.
But to get real with this discussion I think it is very interesting how it brings out some of the general misconceptions about evolution. Several folks have pointed out that it will go on, with or without genetic engineering, cloning, etc. That is absolutely true. The details of the evolutionary process are yet to be fully comprehended. We now(in historical terms) only see small scale human adaptations in the form of things like high altitude adjustment, lactose tolerance, disease resistance, etc. The greater effects of mutations and the selection of them may never be evident until something calamitous happens. It might take something like the odd difference in the .01% of us that survives a world wide plague that finally changes/evolves Homo sapiens. We can look back at the fossil record and see a time when multiple hominids occupied similar territories. Thru paleoanthropology we try and figure out why and how each came to be and then went it's way. But the fossil record is incomplete.
There is a concept in evolutionary study that was proposed by Stephen Jay Gould and Niles Eldridge termed Punctuated Equilibrium. I am paraphrasing, but it basically states that when we look at the fossil record we see species lasting tens, hundreds, if not millions of years without any apparent change. Then something happens, continents move, ice ages occur, an asteroid knocks things silly and in the wake we find those species (sometimes apparently new) that for whatever reason had an advantage. And that advantage(mutation) could have meant nothing until the event takes place.
Opponents like to pick it apart by describing all sorts of discrepancies that make it impossible (or just very very hard) to make a simple one-sentence explanation for evolution. When in fact there appears to be a wide variety and scale of factors and effects involved in the process. Many are environmental but others are just the product of genetic drift and the mutations that take place. Life in fact evolves as much from within as without. [Someone help me out here. There is a quote (It was actually in a scientific publication years ago) I saw once and it basically says: For every idea in science there is a simple and clear explanation, AND it's wrong.]
Chuck Howarth started a thread about how the public just can't be bothered by facts, and was questioning how we should attack the problem of educating(not teaching) the public when they have so little regard for what we call "the truth." I believe we can all learn more by trying to approach these things from a more Gestalt level. We need to become more aware of our surroundings and environment and in that way learn to "feel" that evolution makes sense. I believe this applies to all sciences as well. Facts alone are too easy.
(But then Jonah is working on a death ray* so it all might be mote)
* Inside joke
Erich Rose (don't get me started...)
Erich Rose Design
807 The Living End
Austin, TX 78746
512-626-9930; [log in to unmask]
On Jul 20, 2010, at 2:42 PM, martin weiss wrote:
> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
> *****************************************************************************
>
> Eric
>
> It really depends on how much the environment changes. We may not even be safe in the "crevices". And much of our adaptability depends upon our use of "technology".
>
> Martin
> On Jul 20, 2010, at 12:19 PM, Erich Rose wrote:
>
>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
>> *****************************************************************************
>>
>> Jennie is spot on. The very idea that we can stop evolution is completely contrary to the idea itself. I'm afraid it's just another example of are extreme anthropocentric view of things. It's like when folks get too excited and say "We will destroy the Earth!" Well, not a chance. We might make it a miserable place, destroy ourselves and take a bunch of species down with us, but the Earth will just shrug her shoulders and be on to the next thing. I mean we have all done the geological time scale analogies. We are just a brief blip in terms of the planet's history. Again, we don't see how small we really are in the overall scale of things.
>>
>> Of course because we are so adaptable we may also end up as the "roaches" of the mammal world and continue living in the cracks and crevices for way too long.
>>
>> Erich Rose
>>
>> Erich Rose Design
>> 807 The Living End
>> Austin, TX 78746
>> 512-626-9930; [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 20, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Jennie Dusheck wrote:
>>
>>> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
>>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related institutions.
>>> *****************************************************************************
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just joined this list recently and have been lurking. I am a science writer with a strong interest in public science education, especially evolution. I am working on a science education project related to evolution.
>>>
>>> I don't think it's possible to stop evolution of natural populations, whether human or otherwise. Even if small populations of humans reproduced through cloning--and really why go to all that trouble?--the rest of the world would carry on as usual. As far as humans not evolving, the most you could ever see is very strong stabilizing selection, which is typical of highly specialized species--the opposite of what we are. I think geneticists will continue to find lots of signs of recent evolution in human populations. In humans, as in all organisms, evolution is a dynamic, ongoing process, not something that "happened a long time ago."
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jennie Dusheck
>>> MA Zoology
>>> Science Writing & Editing
>>> Santa Cruz, CA
>>
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> __________________
> __________________
> Martin Weiss, PhD
> Science Interpretation Consultant
> mweiss at nyscience dot org
>
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