Martin Braunstein's comments about the poor timing of Apimondia beg the
reply that no time is convenient for all beekeepers.  About the best
timed bee meetings I know of are the ones scheduled in January - a lull
for upstate New York beekeepers, but I am sure it's bad timing for
others.  Apimondia is scheduled for fall harvest/winter preparation for
many parts of the northern climates, but if it's a priority, beekeepers
will arrange their schedules accordingly.
 
It is interesting to me that Martin uses the scheduling conflict as an
introduction to the discussion of "high quality but low price Argentina
honey exports", which then became a more generalized discussion of
world honey prices.
 
Personally I have never heard of the I.H.E.O (International Honey
Exporters' Organization), but I find it hard to cast them in the role as
bad guys.  As was pointed out on sci.agriculture.beekeeping , for better
or worse we now compete in a global economy.  Any group or individual
marketing any commodity attempts to exploit world markets in whatever
manner possible to maximize the return on their efforts.  That's how
capitalism works.
 
> ... it is not surprising how a few small organizations are able to
> reduce so dramatically the prices being paid to all producers.
 
The granularity is not fine enough here.  It doesn't take a "few small
organizations" to reduce prices dramatically, it takes sufficient small
producers to sell enough product to meet the demands of the few small
organizations, period.  This is like lawyer bashing - it's a "given"
that nearly everyone hates lawyers.  But the real problem with lawyers
is they always have clients!  Anyone can hate "small organizations",
but the real problem with "small organizations" is there are plenty of
small producers willing to sell to small organizations for small prices.
 
James Fischer wrote:
> There is a name for people who sell at a price lower than their cost
> of production, packaging, and shipping.  Here in the US, they are
> called "Hobbyist Beekeepers".
 
Well, you can take your pot shots at whoever you choose, but frankly I'm
getting pretty fed up with open season on "Hobbyist Beekeepers".  As a
sideline producer it seems every time I try to get a new account I
discover that I must accept a lower price than I ask based on the fact
that the potential customer can get a better price from another
"commercial" producer.  The hobbiests aren't my competition and it
seems to me the commercial guys are cuttin' their own and each others'
throats.  There's always one guy willing to undercut the next guy.
 
Martin blames the small organizations, James blames the hobbiest.  It's
neither!  The true source of the deflated price problem is any and all
producers willing to accept a deflated price for their product.  If a
hobby beekeepers accepts a low price for honey they are guilty of
keeping prices depressed.  If a commercial beekeeper accepts a low
price for honey they are guilty of keeping prices depressed.  There are
commercial and hobby beekeepers alike willing to accept deflated prices
for honey WORLDWIDE!
 
Martin uses the statistics:
> The U.S. consumes approximately 350 million pounds, ... produces
> approximately 190 million pounds, ... (leaving) a 160 million pound
> deficit.
to make a point to import more honey from Argentina and less honey from
China.  The flaw in these figures is the assumption that packers are
going to buy all of the 350 million pounds produced domestically to meet
domestic needs.  The last time I looked to wholesale my honey at a
decent price I was quoted an insulting pittance based on foreign
producers willing to accept a deflated price.  My options were to accept
a deflated price or withold my crop from the marketplace until prices
firm up or foreign producers demanded more for their crop or hell
freezes over!  I'm doubly fortunate in this situation, first because
honey keeps virtually forever and second, I am able to meet my
obligations without having to accept a deflated price for my honey.
Those who rely on their honey crop to pay their bills, pay their help,
FEED THEIR FAMILY(!) are forced to accept the deflated price based on a
WORLD market, where the price is set at the point of production with the
lowest costs where a deflated price is actually good pay!
 
> ... ask why if China's honey crop in 1998 was disastrous (70% down)
> why the price of honey is so low.
 
David Tharle replied:
> The majority of your producers must be happy with the prices they
> receive or they would organize and bypass the exporters/importers.
 
This is close to the crux of the matter.  It would be a bull's eye
statement if it read, "there are sufficient producers happy, or at least
willing, to accept the price they receive".
 
> We must figure out how Argentineans can make more money on their honey
> and not depress prices in the U.S.
Well, if Argentina and the US were the only producers in the WORLD this
might work.  Until ALL the producers are able to hold out until they get
a decent price there is no winning at the packers' game.  What I
consider a decent price is a third world wet dream!  If I can't get
$1/lb (US wholesale) I won't sell.  I give my word on that to all the
commercial guys who think the hobbiest are the cause of the problem and
to all the hobbiests who are competing with the commercial guys and to
all the foreign producers who will accept far less, and all the "other
world" producers willing to accept far, far less.  $1/lb (US wholesale),
$2/lb (US retail) or I don't sell.  Know what?  I've got a lot of honey
stockpiled.  The only way I'm gonna sell it is to cultivate a market of
customers who realize that my honey is worth MY decent price.  While I'm
waiting for the rest of the world to agree on MY decent price there
are and always will be a lot of packers and/or small organizations
making a lot of money.
 
> If large US beekeepers decide to get together and import Argentina
> honey, we may avoid our traditional exporters and your honey buyers
> (NHPDA) will lose power because they will not find any honey.
 
Why won't NHPDA simply look to other shores?  I just don't follow this.
Large US producers not able to market their crop due to cheaper foreign
imports are going corner the Argentine market forcing NHPDA to buy
the large US stockpiles?  These are the same producers singing the
working capital blues under current operating practices?  I guess
they're going to get the investment capital from the government honey
loan program!?
 
Hmmmm - ploys to corner the market to drive up prices ... hmmm.  We have
names for people who do that here, well actually, we give them numbers
and uniforms and room and board!
 
Aaron Morris - think $2/lb is a decent price, wishing $10!