On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:16:26 -0500, Aaron Morris <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>So where I'm going with this is, the assertions that CCD is an overblown
>phenomenon and the assertions that migratory beekeeping is the bane of
>the industry make me wonder what are the beekeeping credentials of those
>making the claims?  I am not challenging the rights of anyone to their
>own opinion, but the assertions being made are contrary to what I am
>being told at meetings I attend where speakers' credentials most likely
>qualify their assertions, a fortiori, than the assertions being made on
>BEE-L.
>
>Remember, this is a list for informed discussion, not fervent opinions.
>



I maintain a sizable stationary operation and make my living full time with bees. I have many 
freinds and acquantances who are migratory beekeepers.  I spend time between the West Coast 
and the Midwest. 

I have obviously been quite critical of the scope of the scope of CCD claims,  reread my posts and I 
have never said CCD is not real (although Mr Fisher has claimed such about me).  My issues are 
the extent and scope of the problem that is being published.  

This particular segment of the CCD topic EVERYONE is an expert and NO ONE has any definitive 
answers since the evidence is weak and or generated by a "consultant". 

What I see is that the research/consultant/media experts bunch are the most fervent and vocal in 
their insistance that CCD is this random wide ranging disorder.  Aside from Mr Hackenburg and a 
few other beeks hit hard, few beeks are crying wolf. Mr Harrison has recently back that point up 
with his travel notes. 

Take for instance the current situation now in fall and early winter 2007, its starting to look like 
from my contacts that CCD was a flash in the pan in late 2006, any return cycle of CCD appears to 
be smaller then last year. Of course this could change quickly and I'm sure we all hope it was a 
flash in the pan. 

I do not see the evidence anywhere from my vantage point that this has widely affected the 
industry or a huge number of beekeepers. Unfortunately the printed "evidence" is weak and leaves 
much to speculate. I have seen few from the research/consultant/media experts group who were 
willing to step forward and acknowledge that the winter kill which unfolded in the north in spring 
of 2007 was NOT CCD. There are some though who were brave enough to go on record. From 
what I can determine there was not much of an attempt by that community to set the record 
straight that a dead out in spring is not the same as CCD.  Some may have been happy to let that 
little fact blow by as the estimates ballooned beyond reality. 

To me this is an argument over the scope and extent of CCD not whether its a real affliction or not 
as Aaron implied.

As far as migratory beekeeping is concerned, I believe my point about no contingency plan when 
the big one  hits is valid. Poultry and livestock have protective measures in place for when and if 
Avian Flu or Hoof & mouth are discovered. Why should we not have a similar plan in place to 
protect the static hives which are clearly owned by the MAJORITY of beeks? 

Why do we let 1000-1400 beeks and a couple of hundred large almond ranchers decide whats 
best for beekeeping in the USA? This minority of people have too much power IMO and need to be 
reigned in. Its all about the money and I do not see descisons or policies evolving which are meant 
to consider the long term health of our honeybees. 

Aaron let me ask you as I assume you are a static beek from what I have read in your posts. IF you 
beleive that CCD is to be feared and your colonies are looking good as we speak. Would you mind 
if someone moves a couple of hundred hives nearby next May after they come back from 
almonds? Would you lose any sleep if you counted on your bees for your next mortgage payment? 
Would you be angry if your bees picked up CCD, SHB or some other new affliction next summer?  
Remember there is no way to prove that any new problems came from your new neighbors. 
Science is not going to be of much help now my friend when you're screwed and left cleaning up a 
mess you did not probaly even create.  

Would you cast a wary eye then towards the 100's of colonies near your static operation?  Would 
you then beleive that something needs to change?  Who has a right to keep clean and healthy bees 
without external interference?  

To me this thread of topics has become a policy debate, not a scientific discussion. Policy debates 
involve opinions.  Policies shape industries, we need this discussion right now. 

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