>No amount of information to the contrary is going to persuade anyone who is
>convinced that neonics cause CCD.

I  am only going to go over this one more time Peter.
None of my friends on BEE-L have trouble understanding my position.

CCD is simply a word for a set number of symptoms. CAUSE UNKNOWN & UNPROVEN.
Jerry b. has his hypothesis and I have mine.

We both agree that pesticides *can *weaken bees immune systems to a point
that virus and nosema issues can cause bee death. Disorientate bees like
described by chemical companies in their adds for using Imadicloprid for
termite control.

The argument between Bayer and beekeepers might last all day but in the end
comes down to:

At what level does the neonicotinoids cause problems?


Also my problem is with the neonicotinoids used on crops I pollinate or in
the area of such as CORN. I have only a casual interest in canola.

I find it interesting that a California beekeeper which has never had bees
around neonicotinoid treated corn and a New York beekeeper with no direct
experience with corn would even suggest what we see here in the Midwest
(with CORN as far as the eye can see) might NOT be seeing what we see.

>The US has spent millions of dollars on this, but they don't find the
>answers some folks want, so they are condemned for not trying hard enough
>or looking in the right places.

I read every bee magazine cover to cover and still waiting for Jerry B., F.
Eischen, Jeff Pettis or any other CCD or USDA-ARS researcher to come to the
Midwest and look at the connection between corn & bee death.

Bee death was reported to the USDA in our area last spring and the response
was they would send out an entomologist. Never happened for the beekeeper.

Many of mu friends say to me:
"Bob you are wasting your breath on the BEE-L list as those guys are out of
touch with the real world of commercial beekeeping. "

*If * I did not come on and give the "other side of the coin" then many
BEE-L members might believe there is only one side of the discussion.

My opinion on canola (heard from my friends to the north) goes along with
what allen has said. Those beeks do not see the death we do with corn and
they get paid for the pollination.

CORN is worthless to beekeepers. Takes up land which used to contain clover
( at least every forth year before ROUNDUP). The pollen is the least
nutrition of our Midwest pollen.

My bees in areas of corn do poorly both during the honey flow and the next
winter. Dwindle and die in many cases. The problem started with the use of
the neonicotinoids.

Iowa is almost solid corn today and  went from the 4-5th largest honey
producing region of the U.S. ( years gone past in the Stanley brothers days
of 300 LB.  honey harvest to the two years of less than 30 pound averages of
2009 & 2010.

Iowa beekeepers are asking what is happening now that is new. When I spoke
to Iowa beekeepers a few weeks ago they said the problem with dwindling and
honey production started about the time the corn treated seed was introduced
and has got worse each year since with the last two years being the worst
crops since the start of record keeping.

The problem starts when the corn reaches around 2 1/2 feet .

Yet no USDA-ARS people coming to Iowa ( nor Nebraska, Indiana , Illinois or
Missouri) to look at the issue between corn and bees.

>the hypothesis that CCD may be "a syndrome caused by many different
>factors, working
in combination or synergistically." Currently, USDA states, researchers are
focusing on three
major possibilities:

Peter lists the below as number one possible CCD cause or at least first in
the list of 3 possible causes. The neonicotnioids have NEVER been ruled out
as a possible cause for dying bees.

â?¢ pesticides that may be having unexpected negative effects on honey bees;

The next is a hypothesis many believed from the start and many have done
their best to make the research fit their pet hypothesis and many of us
believe by not following up all other possible causes and explanations.

â?¢ a new parasite or pathogen that may be attacking honey bees, such as the
parasite
Nosema ceranae or viruses; and

The last is not as much a hypothesis as common sense. The last has always
been true and a fact those making a living from bees learn early on or leave
beekeeping.

>â?¢ a combination of existing stresses that may compromise the immune
>system of
bees and disrupt their social system, making colonies more susceptible to
disease
and collapse.

bob

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