> I do wish to apologize to the List, to Stan, and to Bob for getting swept
> up
> in the fun of a vigorous discussion, and feel that I went to far at poking
> fun at Bob.

No need to apologize to me Randy and am sorry if I fueled the fire but the
Dorothy &Toto thing with Allen fits Kansas people not Missouri . In
Missouri we have Jennifer and her dog is a Rhodesian Ridgeback ( used in
Africa as a kill dog when hunting Lions.)

 Bob has publicly stated a
> number of times that he considers himself to be a "pot stirrer," so that
> makes him fair game to poke fun about that aspect of his posts.

Frank Eischen gave me the name. You see Frank on occasion Randy ask Frank. I
will bet he is surprised his statement made its way back to me!

 Bob's pot-stirring posts often fire up vigorous debate, and
> that is one thing that keeps this list dynamic and thought-provoking.

The list is tame. Many times at meetings things get heated and we are asked
to move to the halls with our conversations. Only once at the KHPA meeting!
At Bell Honey in Florida many times the secretary will pound on the door to
quiet down the noise level of our discussion as customers are in the
office.


One thing that
> bothers me is that Bob and Stan's posts about the neonics are largely
> based
> upon innuendo, speculation, secrecy and other unverifiable statements.

Both Stan & I are around a higher number of hives than any study ever done
on the neonicotinoids  Together I expect we are approaching a 100 years
experience among the bees. Our eyes do not lie. We both have seen losses we
*believe* were caused buy the neonicotinoids.

The phone numbers of these beekeepers are available to Randy ( If not I will
send)
:
Call Gene Brandi and say you know of a farmer with a 100 acres of
imidacloprid treated melons needing pollination and then report to us his
response.

Call Hackenberg and say you know of a farmer with a 100 acres of
neonicotinoid treated pumpkins needing pollination and then report his
response.

I could add to the list but Gene is close to you and Hack is not shy about
his pumpkin losses.

 One
> the other side is a large body of scientific data, practical field
> experience, and positive reports by a large number of beekeepers.

Ok I have listed a couple for you to contact.( I will send you their phone
numbers off list if you can't find and you can tell both I asked you to call
which should get the information you seek)

Now
Email me a couple from your list and I will contact which report going into
neonicotinoid treated melons or pumpkins without problems.

  Again, I've asked beekeepers all over for verifiable
> anecdotal reports of neonic problems.  I've asked Bob for such, on list,
> and
> have yet to receive a reply.

See above!

 Please call and report what the two above say on BEE-L.
I will do the same with two  the names of the beekeepers you send me.

> Bob, you posted that:
>>some studies have said when the above products [neonicotinoids] are mixed
> with other chemical sprays the effects on bees can be increased 100 to a
> 1000 times.

The KHPA beekeepers were told the above by Clint walker ( former ABF
pres.)in his presentation at the meeting in the question & answer section.

 Would you be kind
> enough to provide us with the source for the figure that you cited above?

Clint Walker and a board member of the ABF which said the information was
also talked about in a conference call. Various numbers have been tossed
around but I have never heard before adding certain fungicides with the
neonicotinoids would not effect the effect on bees. Captan was one fungicide
talked about.

bob
Sitting around the still in the Ozarks with his head on a old Rhodesian
Ridgeback hound ( named Maximus/ Max for short!) getting ready to take a
afternoon nap.

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