> this seems to me like a description of classic "disease".  I can imagine some other microbe "getting out of hand" in a complex culture and causing some kind of observable/measurable symptoms...

I don't share what seems to be a belief in some ideal perfect harmony among the multitudes of microflora.  It's war out there (or in there).  Competition is fierce and any alliances among the microorganisms or organisms are accidental and fleeting to my view, although some are more common and lasting to the point where I could imagine two merging.

> but i've not heard much about this kind of infection being reported in bees...is there something I'm missing? 

Who knows?  I'd say the odds are mush better than good, almost the point of certainty.

> I kind of think that if this were a common occurance (microbial disease outside of the common ones) someone would have reported it (as Jerry did with the new virus).

As I said before, it is too complex, too much in flux and too dependant on  multiple immeasurables to submit easily to our understanding.

> I've heard lots of observations and suggestions from researchers of what appears to be under active immune systems...I haven't heard any hint of "overactive immune systems" in bees.

That is because there is no immune system in bees as we know it in mammals AFAIK.  That talk is just a simple analogy (back to analogies and how they lead us astray) for us lay types who have trouble with polysyllabic techno-babble and the complex system of interactions between the insects, their environment and the microorganisms that live in, on and around them.

> The Evans study I posted showed a 21 times increase in some antibacterial RNA when larvae were exposed to non-pathogenic bacteria in their feed.  The author postulates a mechanism where the RNA is is present mostly in the hemolymph to fight any infection that breaches the gut, while having less effect in the gut where the bacteria are tolerated.  This suggests a system in which the more bacteria present, the more energy spent on bacterial defense (a pretty good scheme).

I don't know, not having read it.  Any time I have heard him speak, though I have been impressed.

> I understand the logic and the theory that non-pathogenic bacteria present could negatively affect the immune system....I'm just not aware of any data (or observations) that suggest this is happening.

So?  We're hypothesizing aren't we?

Speaking of immune systems, I spent Sunday mornings in my youth sitting listening to learned scribes decompress a few seemingly simple words spoken by a person millennia ago (and recorded decades later) into 5,000 or so words that conveniently reflected whatever was on the scribes' own minds at the time.  

That experience developed in me a strong immunity to any attempts' to expand hypothetically, inductively or deductively on what is recorded in an original source, and to experience doubts about any attempt to paraphrase, simplify or interpret.  As for the original sources, I subject them to scepticism as well, as readers may have noticed, but I have to assume that they are the most accurate version.

Therefore I apologise if I am not much fun when asked to tag along on a speculative exercise.  It is just not in my nature to venture far.

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