> If my package is not delivered in good condition to my door,
I am not liable for a cent.

Not true with Australian package bees. Airlines are not willing to stand
good for the loss.

>  AUSTRALIA is supposed to be doing tests of this sort using their
own inspectors, techs, and lab gear.

The hold up on the first import was because APHIS had not sent the
information listing the things to check for. Australia has always checked
for the things on the list. Always!

 >They aren't, and
they apparently never have.  That's negligent in the
extreme.

I don't know the source of your information (if any other than Jim's
inmagination!) but as usual you have not got a clue about the way the system
works! Could you provide the source of your information? Is the word
apparently mean you *think* they never have?

< as we want to be able to operate INDEPENDENTLY
of vague concepts like "trust".

We? Who is we? Jim Fischer beekeeper (and song writer) wants carry little
weight.

>We need mutually-assured checks and balances.

Again the power of one lone beekeeper.

>Samples can be taken when the bees arrive, and this
"special task" will get the pallets of bees the sort
of priority attention that will result in quicker release.

The opinion of Jim again! I know better than you how the system works and
waiting for an inspector at LAX is not acceptable. Bees get too hot. Aphis
trusts the Australian system (even if lone beekeeper Jim Fischer does not).
Aphis has never been at the airport when a shipment has arrived!

So  what's your stake in any of this, Bob?

Clearly explained in my articles.

I see the long term need for the genetics> Plus getting beekeepers the
packages they need at a time when none others are available. We approached
Hawaii about gearing up for packages but they declined. Australia was the
last option and one we explained to queen and package producers in the U.S.
before hand!

 > Is it that you think you will need constant replacement packages
so early due to ongoing losses?

My articles explain the reasons why some of us need the packages. Almond
growers bought the first packages sent into the U.S. for Bell Hill Honey.

 >Have you checked with the exporters to verify that they feel that you are
helping, rather than hurting their interests?

I talk to Australia once a week.( actually about an hour ago!) Your phony
baseless misinformed BC articles hurt their interests. My efforts to help
you understand are met with other misinformed answers from you.

>Or are you merely engaging in self-aggrandizement by engaging
in "debate" about a "hot" issue?

This is only a hot issue in your mind. I think you have to be making up your
information as some of your information is so off the wall. Please give me
your source for the information you used in the BC article pertaining to the
Australian inspection service. Maybe the name of the Australian inspector
you contacted. Have you ever contacted Australia or is the information and
cartoon in BC simply slander?

> APHIS has always had the right to inspect after the package
> bees leave the airport and are in the field.

Uh, no they haven't, and no they don't.  :)

Maybe there is no rule but the understanding with Aphis ( conversation with
Wayne directly) has always been they could check  bees later if they felt
the need. Despite what you say there is nothing in Australia we have not got
here.

 Australia (I spoke with tonight) spoke with Dave Hackenberg (also tonight)
and Dave said the USDA_ ARS has traced IAPV even farther back than what is
being published in the December ABJ.

Denis Anderson is a virologist. In fact in my opinion and many others the
worlds leading expert on bee virus. Doubt he would have missed IAPV!

>There is no federal regulation to allow an APHIS employee
to enter a beeyard, open a hive, or take as much as a
single bee.

APHIS has the word of the importers that they will get access to the package
bees if they feel the need. I know first hand as I was involved from the
start.

APHIS knows holding a shipment at an airport is problematic. Especially when
the 10 things listed on the Australian inspection were already in the U.S.
and would not stop the import shipment even if found which is as Paul
Harvey would say" The rest of the story".

 >It is also not possible for a State-level apiarist or bee inspector to
regulate these imported bees, as the imports are exempt from the usual
interstate bee
movement regulations and controls.

Hey I move bees into and out of California. Others might believe you but I
don't. California inspectors can inspect any hives they want with or without
the owners permission. Once the bees are hived ( like I said earlier) they
are under the California inspection service jurisdiction. They are no longer
in transit. And yes Australian package bees have been looked at by the
USDA-ARS and California before.

>Funny how when the shoe is on the other foot, Australia
seems to be able to reject the detailed lab work of the
USDA-ARS itself as "unacceptable"

Detailed lab work?

Having did and article on the USDA-ARS AHB process and actually did the
computer process myself I see the process could have serious errors. Denis
Anderson made the decision to stop our export until the U.S. can come up
with a better process to assure AHB genetics do not enter Australia. I don't
agree with the ban but repect Denis Andersons opinion. AHB
genetics are widespread in the U.S.. Lack of USDA controls is one of the
reasons. Both queens and packages have been for years sent from areas of
AHB. Surely you don't deny this?

> yet we are expected to accept Australia's mere "visual inspection" by some
random bee inspector as our ONLY assurance that their
bees are disease and pest-free.

I think Peter D. explained that more than a visual inspection is done. On
the other hand no inspection is done of packages in the U.S.. No lab testing
is done for permits to ship bees and queens. ONLY a once a year permit
issued!


>I don't really care about sending genetics to Australia.

I don't know how much plainer I can spell it out for you! The large U.S.
beekeepers wanting the import could care less if you want the genetics into
Australia or back into the U.S..  Most those guys don't read bee magazines
and don't know who Jim Fischer is.

 By importing into Australia through the tight queen program where the
queen/ workers and complete hive are destroyed after grafting Australian
queen breeders get the genetics we need in the U.S.. Then those genetics
were sent into the U.S. to Bob Harrison & Dann Purvis among others for
incorporation into U.S. queen lines. I have been involved with over 500
queens myself. Queens with the best genetics the world has to offer. Already
here Jim!

>Why should the US spend even a dime or lift a finger to
provide any other country with our genetics if they want
to make it difficult for us?

The only U.S. genetics Australia wanted was queens from Dann Purvis. His
program involved twice as many queens as Sue Cobey or Marla Spivak. I spent
a couple days with Dann this week as he was a speaker at the Missouri State
beekeepers meeting. Dann showed me his pictures of Australia and the new
insemination equipment he installed for Terry Brown. Dann worked for weeks
setting up a state of the art II system for the queens I hope to get in the
future.

other questions Jim would not have to ask had he read my Australian series
of articles!

> Quick, name a bee breed
since "Buckfast" worth getting that was developed outside
the US.

I have been very impressed with the Buckfast bee/ The Italian varroa
tolerant stock and the hybrid vigor created by  using Italian purebred
queens and crossing with my U.S. stock.  All came in with the import.

 I said:
> the gene pool in the U.S. needs new genetics to help
> build our bees immune systems.

Jim said:
>Again, misleading and/or misinformed.

Give me a break! Now Jim is an expert queen breeder! You crack me up Jim!

>No "building" of immune systems results.

Look at the pictures of those bees in my December article. No CCD here!
Strong immune systems despite being trucked all over the U.S.

>Canada if we want Buckfast bees that are "true to breed",
as all he US producers have allowed the breed to drift.

I agree and that is why I for one bypassed US producers.

I said:
> varroa tolerant (Italy)

Jim asked:
>And how are those working out for you?  :)

I am using for breeders this spring. Enough said.

>I haven't heard the praises of this effort being sung
from the rooftops, and if the effort was even a partial
success, choirs of beekeepers would have spontaneously
formed at bee meetings across the land.

You have flushed me out in the open with your lack of import knowledge so I
had to enlighten you. Send $500 and I will send a breeder queen ( Sue Cobey
gets $500 for a breeder) next spring and only available to  U.S. beekeepers
. Email me for a place in line and let me know the genetics I talked of you
want. Queen will be II. BEE-L flashing blue light special. Not available
except from myself and my partner. Will ship in spring!

> and the best of the Australian line.

Jim asks:
>Which is, what, exactly?

The line which when crossed with most U.S. lines creates hybrid vigor!

>They certainly are not "resistant" to anything, because
Australia claims to be free of everything.

You crack me up Jim with your lack of beekeeping knowledge!

>They certainly can't include any of the new-fangled genetics you mentioned
above, due to their "strict import controls",

I believe you never have read my articles! See above! I explained our plans
for getting import queens from other areas many times in my articles. I hope
this post ends this issue and the list can see clearly Jim has not a clue
about the Australian import or the bees!

>  Growers don't pay full rates
for packages dumped into boxes 90 days before Almond
bloom, do they?

If you read my first article you would see Bell Hill Honey received full
rate for the first packages and many which have already received their
packages last month will get full price in February in Almonds. brokers like
to say the packages will not bring full price just like the California queen
breeders like to say there are no SHb in their area.

I think the list is tired of the above between Jim and I but I could not let
Jim's poor understanding of the import go unanswered.

Sincerely,
Bob Harrison

"I  still think the import will be good for U.S. beekeeping! Canada had
its "sky is falling" crowd twenty years ago! twenty years of Australian bees
did not ruin Canada beekeeping as predicted by the Jim Fischer's of the time
period and the Australian import will not be the end of U.S. beekeeping
despite the *opinion* of Jim Fischer.


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

******************************************************
* Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at:          *
* http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm  *
******************************************************