Hello Gavin, Randy & All,

I will give my replies and Randy can his.

>Do you or does anyone know whether the queen breeders that supply Bob and
>his friends are indeed selecting for CCD survival?

absolutely not! First we have to know what is causing the CCD issue. Perhaps
a few U.S. queen breeders could breed the bee ( only a few as most are queen 
PRODUCERS). The
hives on the east coast reporting CCD had somewhat different symptoms than
those on the west coast. Samples displayed different problems.

As far as nosema ceranae goes we ALREADY have got some bees which tolerate
the problem. Randy & I were having problems understanding when we started
looking into the new nosema why some hives could tolerate spore counts up to
five million and not show symptoms while other crashed with spore counts in
the million range.

Randy and I both suspected at the start that the ONLY possible reason was
that the *new* nosema was in fact an *old* nosema which would explain what
we were seeing. Now our suspicions have been confirmed. Randy has some bees
in his nosema test yards which possibly be used as breeders.

None of know how long breeding a nosema ceranae tolerant bee might take. 
Over 20 years for varroa tolerant and still not the forever varroa tolerant 
bee.

I do believe its possible ( as I believe has already happened on its own 
over
the last 24 years ).

Breeding a tolerant bee would be a good job for the Baton Rouge Bee lab.

I personally will treat if needed (to stay in business) and cull hives which
display a weakness to nosema ceranae ( really the best way for me to improve
genetics other than bringing in new genetics or doing a costly breeding 
program myself)

Breeding for nosema tolerant bees.Hmm.  I can see the adds now.


>Bob's attitude when we asked him earlier was to ditch the dinks and buy
>anew, which left me believing that Bob's advice was not the way forward for
>those suffering CCD.

Maybe I would have a different opinion if I knew what CCD is instead of
being given four possible answers. I am not a queen breeder. I am a
commercial beekeeper. *When* a queen breeder comes up with a nosema ceranae
tolerant bee I will try a 100. I certainly will not convert all my hives.
Those days are over. Been burned too many times with claims.

I really have never had dies with exactly the CCD symptoms except in a few 
random cases. I have seen those symptoms in other beeks yards.

I also would not advise a commercial beek to quit trying to control nosema
ceranae and simply let nosema ceranae kill off the dinks and then raise
queens from the survivors for a couple reasons.

1. You will in most cases sustain heavy losses

2. those hives and the deadouts will contain high spore counts infecting new
bees placed on those hives and also a reservoir for nosema ceranae problems 
to
rise whenever the bees immune system is compromised.( hives which have
crashed from huge nosema ceranae spore counts need acetic acid treatment *in
my opinion*).

*If* I was a queen breeder looking to find a nosema ceranae tolerant bee 
then
I would do the above.


>Any sign that the US beekeeping industry is learning these lessons?

We need a higher number of queen breeders but because the work is hard with
few rewards moneywise few are interested. Randy has learned the fact with 
his research. Projects take time and money and keeps you from your other bee 
work. Bee research has cost myself plenty in time and money.

 Beeks will buy disease tolerant bees but at only a few dollars over 
production
queen prices. Selling disease tolerant queens can be profitable but a close
friend selling varroa tolerant breeder queens sell only a few breeder queens 
( a drop in the bucket compared to his costs)

. He does sell quite a few varroa tolerant production queens but he has to 
not price
himself out of the queen price range.

 So how does he recoup his losses from
his research? Going on 10 years and still in the hole if you consider all 
the money lost in the first years.

I doubt little of the 4 million in CCD funds will trickle down to queen 
breeders which could find a tolerant bee. Politics are already involved my 
sources say.

bob

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