Hello Bob, Chuck, and Keith:
You have mentioned my name FAVORABLY, and I THANK YOU; and hence I am writing.

My topic might be: Russians (Are they Carniolans?), Who can decide? Where
does one
get "true" racial queens, of ANY race?  Does anyone understand honey bee
"genetics" or different "strains" of the same race?  Queen "producers" versus
queen "breeders"?

I am older (83) than most of you, in my 72nd year of beekeeping in Maryland,
NOT
a commercial beekeeper in spite of 100+ colonies for many years, just a Ph.D.
Nuclear physicist who designed, helped build, and tested atomic bombs for the
Manhattan Project and the following Atomic Energy Commission.  Hence, I don't
have any formal education in genetics, anatomy, honey production, honey
sales, or
queen rearing.  However, I am a scientist, think like a scientist, demand of
MYSELF
and others like a scientist, and read every thing printed by bee scientists
and bee
researchers.

Today, I am writing to get my mind off of a SUPER problem for me.  My future
wife,
age 75, who I first met 49 years ago when I was testing atomic bombs in Nevada
is being operated on at this moment in Las Vegas for lymphatic cancer; and I
already lost my 1st wife after 59 years of marriage to pancreatic cancer.  We
were scheduled to go to Williamsburg, Virginia in June to buy a retirement
home for the two of us.

Maryland is no longer an agricultural state because farms are now townhouses
and
shopping malls.  In central Maryland (Baltimore- Washington DC) the ONLY
nectar
flows are in April and May from Black Locust and Tulip Poplar, and its ALL
OVER by
June 10th.  My mentor was Dr. James I. Hambleton, Chief Apiculturist of the
U. S.
from 1922-66 when Shim took over.  He ordered Italians for me in 1933, and I
did
pretty good with them for 15 years.  In 1948, Steve Taber persuaded me to
switch
my 20 colonies to Carniolans, pointing out that they raised brood 3-4 weeks
ahead
of Italians in the Maryland weather and would have a much bigger force of
foragers
who would be ready for "nectar collecting" by April 15th.  He was RIGHT!  With
Italians, I rarely got 100 pounds/colony; and the Carniolans always give me
over
100 pounds/colony AFTER I LEARNED HOW TO CONTROL THEIR SWARMING INSTINCTS.
Getting decent queens was a problem, and the old Hastings line was not real
good.
Finally, about 1960, I found Al Dietz, author of Chapter 2 in the Hive and
Honey Bee
and he sent me Carniolan queens from Georgia, but some were crossbred with
Italians.  About the late 70's, like a breath of spring, Sue Cobey, just a
young high
IQ scientist appeared on the scene, developing well bred Carnie queens by the
"closed population" methods of Laidlaw-Page; and after going to Germany and
visiting perhaps the world's greatest honey bee geneticist, Dr. Friedrich
Ruttner,
Sue set about producing 99% pure Carniolan queens via Artificial Insemination.
SO WHAT, you might say.  I think I know real Carniolans.  Unfortunately, it
is a
BLACK bee with greyish-brown hairs rather than the golden Italian.  The
Carniolan
VERY early late winter-early spring build up is unequaled by any other race.
Brother
Adam was AMAZED at this EXPLOSIVE buildup.  The prime home of the Carniolan
is the Carniolan Mountain range in former northern Yugoslavia, now Croatia;
and they are the principal bee in all of Germany, Rumania, Bulgaria, and
Hungary.  I was
there to visit the beekeepers 20 years ago.  I purposely omitted AUSTRIA.
There
is a black bee there, thought to be Carniolan, but it over collects propolis;
and
true Carniolans collect almost no propolis.  Let me be honest, the swarming
instinct
of the Carniolan bee is controllable by a well organized beeKEEPER, but it is
a
disaster in the hands of a beeHAVER or a lazy beekeeper.  Remember the Y-2k
Carniolan bee of 15 years ago brought back to the states by Tom Rinderer that
was
supposed to be varroa resistant?  What a JOKE!  That was an AUSTRIAN strain of
Carniolan which collected more propolis than honey.  Ha Ha.  Tom is a highly
competent scientist, but his staff really "screwed up" in the selection of an
Austrian strain of Apis Carnica.
        What is the Russian lineage?  In private communications, several
scientists
have suggested that it is either all Carniolan, or a Carniolan cross with the
Caucasian bee that is widespread around the Ural Mountains and the Black Sea
area.  My former BEE PARTNER, Ann Harman, has been to Eastern Russia and
worked
with the bees, and she tells me that it has most of the attributes of the
Carnie,
but equally, she admits that she is just a chemist and not a geneticist.
Hence,
my GUESS (and that is what it is) is that the so-called Russian bee is
basically a
Carniolan, that has been developed into a STRAIN prevalent in Eastern Russia.
I would be most happy if someone could persuade Rob Page to investigate and
give
us his opinion of the Russian genetics.  Speaking for myself, I want NO PART
of this
"unknown" race, strain, hybrid or anything else you want to call it.
Everyone wants
to buy a new queen for $10, and believe it is the "silver bullet" to end
varroa problems.  I won't live to see it, but my opinion is the increased
development of
HYGIENIC BEES, started by Walter Rothenbuhler about 1960, endorsed by Steve
Taber, with supplemental proof by Martha Gillian, and NOW were fantastic
results of success by Marla Spivak will be the final end of the varroa problem and
indeed
maybe the AFB problem that caused Rothenbuhler to examine HYGIENIC BEHAVIOR.
There is just a single problem here - the average customer, particularly the
commercial beekeeper who already has a difficult time making a living from
bees,
is NOT going to pay the price that is going to be charged for a HYGIENIC
queen.

I have mentioned "strains", racially "true", queen "producers" and queen
"breeders".
What do I mean?  When Rothbuhler was investigating HYGIENIC behavior in Iowa,
there were two prime "strains" of Italian bees there, the Brown line and the
Van
Scoy line.  The Brown line was very defensive, or NASTY, but could stay clear
of
diseases by its hygienic behavior of self cleaning of its brood chamber of any
diseased brood.  Close by was the Van Scoys line which was placid, non
defensive, but was subject to diseases. Rothenbuhler was forced to drop his research
about
HYGIENIC bees, because TERRAMYCIN was discovered in 1970 to treat AFB in place
of sulfur drugs, and everyone lost interest, but now we have Marla Spivak
restoring
interest.  There was the Brown strain and the Van Scoy strain here, both of
which
were apis mellifera ligustria.  Oppositely, via Artificial Insemination, Sue
Cobey
is producing probably the closest bee to a "true" bee, and hence cycling away
its
inherited changes resulting from crossbreeding, and restoring the original
"true"
Carniolan race.
       Lastly, let me mention queen "producers" versus queen "breeders".
Raising
queens is an ART, but raising queens for a given genetic reason is
SCIENTIFIC.  Bud
Cale, a superb scientist, produced two well known hybrids, the Starlines and
the
Midnites, each designed for an explicit purpose: Starlines for honey
production and
Midnites for gentleness.  Just as we have many, many, too many cell phone
manufacturers and cell service companies today, ALL fighting to make a SALE;
or
the Ford competing pricewise with Chevrolet and Toyota, while meanwhile
Cadillac,
Mercedes, BMW won't get into that rat race, because they not only have the
superior
product, but have the PRESTIGE of QUALITY not enjoyed by the "price" cars.
Read
the ads in Bee Culture or ABJ, and their are dozens of ads for queens.
However, HOW
many know "beans" about honey bee genetics, selecting queens for desirable
traits, changing their drone line to better the desirable qualities and
diminish
the not wanted traits.  I call these queen "sellers" queen "producers".
However,
there are just a few out there that are true queen "breeders" that are trying
desperately to keep their line "true", using Artificially Inseminated queens
as their
BREEDER queens, constantly selected new drone lines and RAISING those drones
for field mating with their virgin queens, SELECTING BREEDER queens that prod
uce bees with desirable traits for their market, and destroying BREEDER queens
that
produce bees with undesirable traits.  In spite of all this research and
study by
the true queen BREEDER, he is forced to sell his queens at a price not too
far above
the price that this unknowledgeable queen "producer" sells his queens.  How
does
the buyer know who is good and who is not so good?  I can, but I am NOT going
to
name any names; but I think that the queen "sellers" that are involved and
serve
on the National Honey Board, or any of the other bee associations, whose
purpose
is to promote the sale of honey, crop pollination by honey bees, the
importance of
honey bee pollination to the ecology of FOOD for humans; and they do this
without
PAY, but only in the interest of public information, so badly destroyed by the
Hollywood "killer bee" movies, are showing their "medal" as informed queen
breeders rather than that guy only interested in a buck.    xxx?

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