SIGNOFF BEE-L
 
 
 
On Thu, 25 May 1995, Adam Finkelstein wrote:
 
> Hello,
>
> Thank you all sincerely for responding to my mating nuc questions. I'm happy
> to say that so far, after your input, my mating rate has gone up from ~33%
> to around 90%!
>
> The boxes I use have entrances facing different ways. I added canvas to
> separate the compartments and painted geometric shapes around the
> entrances varying the pattern and color.
>
>
>
>
>  Summary:
>
>
> From: Allen Dick <[log in to unmask]>
>
> >   I'm mating queens. I use single nuc boxes and boxes divided in two.
> The  matings I get in the single boxes are about 80%, but the divided
> boxes are about 33%.
>
> Odd.  We use standards divided into three with 90% or so success.  The
> entrances are on opposite sides and the outsides are painted different
> colours as if three three frame nucs were taped together, each painted a
> different colour.  We also have standards (all white) with 5 or is it six
> separate compartments with holes on different sides.  They are very
> successful.
>
> > I'm using masonite to divide the boxes, and there is a large "buffer
> area" between the two masonite dividers (a medium divided into three
> compartments with the nucs on the outside compartments.) There are small
> gaps between the masonite and the hive rabbet. Very small. Also, I use
> flat  cypress tops that often do not stay flat (they warp a little).
>
> Shouldn't matter.  Some use a sheet of black plastic as an 'inner cover'
> It tends to settle and seal well on top.
>
> I wonder if you have enough bees in the nucs?  (open) Brood to hold the
> bees?
>
> How are they separated in the yard?  Random organisation with some junk
> for orientation helps.
>
> >     Is the virgin or queen crossing over into the other nuc via the
> uneven > top or through the gaps from the masonite?
> (line deleted...sorry ...was the virgin crossing over via the underside of
> the top.)
> I doubt
>
>
> >     Also, the entrance holes I have are very small, 5/8" or about 1 cm.
> > These are almost tunnel like. Should they be bigger, and deeper or does
> > this not matter.
>
> Shouldn't matter.
>
> Is the material repellant somehow?  Are your success comparisons at the
> same time and place?  Total failures of good mating systems sometimes
> occur.
>
> > I want to use the divided nucs since if they work, I'll be getting twice
> as  many queens mated in the same space.
>
> We use them all the time.
>
>
>
>
> From: ibra <[log in to unmask]> Andrew Matheson,
>
> It's been a while since I did much queen rearing, but I thought I'd
> comment from what I do know.
>
>  >There are small > gaps between the masonite and the hive rabbet. Very
> small. Also, I use flat > cypress tops that often do not stay flat (they
> warp a little).  >     Is the virgin or queen crossing over into the other
> nuc via the uneven > top or through the gaps from the masonite?
>
> Quite likely, though I think it doesn't matter even if the virgins aren't
> getting through.  If there is worker-worker contact, then you know what's
> happening to queen pheromones.  Your queenless nucs with emerging cells
> aren't actually queenless, at least to the workers.  Keeping the
> separations absolutely bee-tight is important.
>
> >     Also, the entrance holes I have are very small, 5/8" or about 1 cm.
> > These are almost tunnel like. Should they be bigger, and deeper or does
> > this not matter.
>
> My own feeling is that this doesn't matter.
>
>
>
>
> From: [log in to unmask] (Andy Nachbaur)
>
> You will alway's have trouble with 2 virgins in one box, but you can limit
> it somewhat by the addition of a inner cover made of dill, canvas, sail
> cloth, or denim. Burlap also works but is harder to cut, but really is
> nice smoker fuel after a year or two. I like burlap, but have used other
> materials in my two way nuc's made from 3/4 depth supers with a plywood
> divider. These can be used as supers or put together to make big hives
> that can be wintered.
>
>    The canvas or burlap sack keep's the bee's or queen's apart, makes it
> possible to work one side at a time, by laying the cloth over. I stapled
> mine down the middle to the divider board. It also can hang over the sides
> a little, seems to help the mated queen's find their way back to the right
> hole and may limit robbing.
>
>    The way my neighbor is running the 2 way's now is to catch a round or
> two of queens, then he just make a single queen catch being sure all have
> one queen per two way and puts on a full depth super for early divides
> next spring when he makes them up again.
>
>    For getting lot's of queens nothing beats baby nuc's for cost per queen
> vis labor and materials needed, but not everyone want's a bunch of little
> boxes stored up most of the year.
>
>    I used a bore or fight hole for my 2 way's and did not have a lower
> entrance at all. I also paint all my equipment different colors on all
> sides so they would also help, and I had wooden closer's for the flight
> hole that were panted a dark color, black, blue, red and so on which also
> seemed to help, but even then don't remember getting many 100% days. 80%
> is good, 95 better, but all is dependent on the winds and weather and some
> luck.<G>
>                           ttul Andy-
>
>
>
> From: "Marla Spivak" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Adam, are the entrances facing in opposite directions in your divided
> boxes?  It should help.  It will also help the queens orient back to the
> boxes if you put different color designs around the entrance holes (e.g.,
> blue circle, yellow 'x', orange stripes, green triangle, etc.)  The queens
> can find the location of a single nuc, but it sounds like they are flying
> into the wrong divided box and probably getting killed.  - Marla
>
>
>
>
> From: "John Gates 604 260-3015 (fax 549-5488)" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> A number of years ago when running a bee breeding project here in British
> Columbia Canada we experimented with a number of mating nuc designs. Over
> the long term single nucs yielded more mated queens than doubles, triples
> less still and quads the worst. If you wish to rear a small number of
> queens and maximize your return per nuc, stick with singles. Large
> operators must factor in the efficiencies of using less boxes in closer
> quarters and often opt for a smaller queen return for less cost.
>
> Nuc orientation is very important in increasing mating success. Give your
> bees lots of orientation cues by facing entrances in different directions,
> using a variety of colours and patterns at the entrances, setting the nucs
> near natural features such as trees, boulders, bushes etc and possibly
> more important, keep them sheltered from the wind. An open windy location
> will cause a lot of drift, resulting in poor acceptance of returning
> queens. Sometimes you will get about comparable results from the different
> nucs, but over the long term, in our experience singles will be better.
>
> In multi-compartment nucs bees must not be able to cross from one
> compartment to another or your success will be drastically reduced. To
> avoid problems with warped wood, staple plastic or canvass to the top of
> the divider between compartments. The material should be cut large enough
> to cover the tops of both compartments, acting as an inner cover, securely
> sealing one nuc from the other.
>
> In the early 80's we were mating queens in high altitude isolated yards in
> the mountains while testing the Page/Laidlaw closed population mating
> system. The first season we ran out of time to construct a large
> electically fenced yard for bear protection so had to use the small
> established yard we had for 20 hives. We crammed 25 full-size hives and
> 100 nucs into that yard sitting the nucs on top of colonies and on the
> ground in all the available space. By using techniques to minimize drift
> we obtained 100 % success for one round. It just happened to be the round
> that Dr. laidlaw came to see. He was astonished at the success rate as
> were we. We didn't press our luck though and subsequently built larger
> yards.
>
> You didn't mention where your entrances were. To increase success with
> multi-compartment nucs put the entrances on different sides of the boxes.
> Mini nucs often have entrances of 3/8" to 1/2" in diameter for protection
> from robbing. If robbing is a factor during your mating period you will
> have to do something. You may need to build robber screens especially for
> larger openings.  If you need more ventilation when mating queens during
> hot weather you can drill 1" or larger holes in the rear of each
> compartment and cover them with screen. I overwinter my nucs on top of
> large colonies and use the ventilation holes (which are drilled near the
> top of the boxes) for winter entrances.
>
> Good luck,
>
> John Gates
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "BLANE WHITE" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Adam, You maight want to try a cloth "inner" cover under the cover as this
> should prevent bees from crossing over from one nuc to the other.  You may
> need seperate inner covers for each nuc stapled to the inner side of the
> buffer space.  good luck I know that others use divided hive bodies for
> nucs and don't have a problem...but they don't admit a low success rate.
> Blane
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Kerry Clark 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" <[log in to unmask]>
>
>    Hi Adam
>
>    I've seen nucs such as the one you describe, work fine for mating
>    queens. Even using all 3 chambers has worked, although the consequences
>    of a queen returning from a flight to a neighbouring nuc are much worse
>    than a bit of interchange of workers.
>
>    Do you have the entrances on different sides of the nuc? That would be
>    important. Different landmarks or colors at the entrances would also
>    help.
>
>    Inside, if there is interchange of bees between the nucs, or perhaps
>    even if the air is shared between nucs, there could be increased
>    rejection of any queens after the first one starts to lay. One neat
>    trick to seal the nucs is to staple a flexible sheet (plastic or cloth)
>    that covers both nucs, along the divider, so the separation is more
>    complete. During inspection, only one unit is open at a time, so bee
>    exchange is minimized.  good luck
> --
> ______________________________________
> Adam Finkelstein
> [log in to unmask]
>