Hi Bob

This thread is veering away from the Subject line !
Before I address the points in Bob's post, I would like to remind everybody
that we were trying discuss the selection of a strain of bee for a
particular locality, not the relative merits of one race over another.

> what is the cost of a winter deadout?

Is it not likely that the deadout is due to a lack of suitability for the
conditions encountered ? Choosing a more suitable strain that can/will
survive, saves all the effort of cleaning the equipment and generating a new
colony to fill it.

> > It is not the number of bees in a colony that gains the
> > maximum crop, but the number of bee foraging journeys.
>
> Interesting hypothesis and one my friend Allen Dick agrees with.

Regardless of the number of bees available, the bigger crop can only be
harvested load by load, unless you have found a strain with a larger honey
stomach. However if the 'work load' of the foraging force reaches the
maximum limit, then the colony with the longest working hours combined with
the largest bee numbers will gather the larger crop. (such a limit is never
reached in UK, except perhaps in some heather regions)

> one large hive will out produce the same
> number of bees in two hives

On the surface this seems the logical way to go, but to achieve it requires
disproportionately more management, particularly in swarm avoidance. Rather
than counting crop related to number of hives, I think it more realistic to
compare crop to the amount of beekeeper effort required. Please do not
equate or confuse 'less management' with 'let alone'.

> The above is not what the research has shown in the U.S..
> I have never heard of a bee referred to as *tough*.

In this case the US has disadvantaged itself, by eliminating the original
imported stocks and replacing them with other races, you no longer have the
'tough' bees with which to make the comparison.

> When was the last time you tried a bee other than A.mm Dave?

As a guy whose interest is in breeding, I have had a good deal more
experience of other races than many/most in UK.

I started out with the opinions that Bob is putting forward, but have
gradually changed, as I have become more experienced and hopefully more
knowledgeable. As a person known to have breeding/behavioural interests and
a reputation as a bit of a geek, many 'odd' colonies of unusual or unknown
strain have been pushed in my direction, I have invested effort into
segregating, propagating and identifying (attempting to) such oddities,
because I have enjoyed observing them and I believe I have gained knowledge
and insight by so doing.

But to answer your question more directly, I have had experience of Hybrid
Italians (posh word for mongrels) of several strains, Some very 'hot'
Italians, Carniolan bees of German origin, Carniolan bees of Slovene origin,
Buckfast (as they were 30 years ago) and about two dozen strains of AMM or
near AMM including the Galtee bees, which in my opinion are the finest for
Irish and UK conditions as well as gathering consistently about twice as
much as the strains that resulted from my own breeding efforts. I have also
had minor experience of some Russian/Caucasian bees, but never did establish
exactly what they were.

Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman or http://www.dave-cushman.net
Short FallBack M/c, Build 6.02/3.1 (stable)

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