Hello Bob and All,

Dennis is actually more main stream than many of the other approaches to 
small cell I have seen come down the pike.  Some of these approaches to 
small cell are in fact so different, they IMO will end in catastrophe if 
one were to adopt such an approach.  

>To use a page from your beekeeping on feral comb.
>Have you ever seen small cell size throughout the colony? I NEVER have. 

This is a good point, and no I have not.
But if one looks at the configuration of an elongated feral nest.  During 
the seasonal progression of the broodnest, nearly the entire broodnest, or 
at least a large majority of it will be situated on the smallest cells, 
and generally durring some part of the season.  This seems to occur in 
feral nests I have observed starting sometime in June, and lasting thru 
into late August, the time that it will be most effective against mite 
reproduction.  Makes no difference if the bees rear brood up in the 
storage cells during spring and early summer due to mites low population, 
and preference for drone at this time anyways.  

The configuration of domestic beekeeping hive bodies, necessitate that all 
the comb be small cell, due to the lack of this type of seasonal broodnest 
transition found in elongated feral nests which tends to reduce brood 
rearing in the larger cells at the right time.

>However most commercial beekeepers realize IF they do not treat at least
>once a year then hives today hives start crashing with varroa. 

I agree, but  Penn State is now advising, to treat ONLY if needed.  And 
when treatment is necessary, they are recommending soft treatments.  

>Many would argue about telling new bees that small cell is the answer to 
all
>their problems. 

No need to promise new bees anything.  I am seeing new bees coming to 
small cell on their own because they are looking for organic methods of 
keeping bees.  

>Even on various lists I have seen small cell advocates recommend a 
possible
>varroa treatment until the bees are fully on small cell.

I would agree that some type of control of varroa would be wise during 
regression.  The reduction in varroa seems to be greatest during winter in 
small cell colonies.  It took my bees about 3 seasons to get varroa down 
to very low levels coming out of winter, but I used no controls. 

If you look in the various
>catalogs selling small cell foundation you see a warning is given that 
small
>cell should be used with caution by new beekeepers.

 I think it reads ‘for experienced beekeepers’ due to the degree of 
difficulty newbees may have in regressing.  
“Caution” is the term commonly used on the Apistan label and other 
pesticides.

>when you have got a mentor you blindly follow
>along.

Yes, this is a problem.  I encourage the new bees I mentor not to blindly 
follow what I say, and some will question my advice, and I always 
encourage that.  I focus on helping newbees to be independent as soon as 
possible by teaching them how to evaluate “what they see in the colonies 
performance“.  My goal is to give guidance and course correction when 
needed, while prompting the new bee take the lead in more decisions as 
experienced is gained.  ‘I stand behind the new bee, not in front of 
them’.  

>What small cell evidence? Real proof of the benefits of small cell has 
been
>lacking. 

Read what I wrote again. I said:
“small cell beekeeper having all the evidence at their disposal”.

Now this could be evidence FOR or AGAINST.  But what I am saying is the 
evidence is there for them to make their "own decision" for or against. 
That’s why I found it odd that they would want to wait to see your 
results,,,, didn’t make a heck of allot a’ sense to me.  

Could you point us to some real evidence other than what we are
>told by "some guy named Joe on the internet"?

We are referring to these small cell beekeepers that you said they would 
scrap small cell if your testing of small cell failed.  These beekeepers 
should NOT listen to you nor “some guy named Joe” “They can LOOK in their 
own colonies for the answer, whatever the answer may be”. 

>Many colonies were on 30-50 year old black comb when varroa hit and they
>mostly died. 

IMO, The influx of varroa and virus etc. from colonies from populations 
crashing is something few colonies can withstand.  I know there are 
stories of the hive that did, but experience tells me that it is few.

From what I am seeing in the bees here, is perhaps a single colony of bees 
is as much a part of the srounding population of honeybees as the 
surrounding population of honeybees is a part of the colony.  Due to the 
new rules here on Bee-L about quoting others and name dropping, I can 
mention his name.  But a friend of mine has a fascinating description of 
what he termed ‘virus bombs’, and how a micro population of honeybees 
under certain conditions can bring down healthy colonies in the 
surrounding area with them.  

….Genetics play a bigger roll than cell size
>our researchers have always said.

I don’t know that you can assign which is more important when they are all 
essential parts in the entire scheme of things.  But what I have found was 
that being on small cell allowed me to drop all the treatments.  This 
enabled me to better assess the colonies genetics on their true merits, 
and without treatments elevating a colonies performance to something it is 
not. 

Enjoyed the discussion!
Good luck with your experiment!

Best Wishes,

Joe Waggle
Derry, PA
“Bees Gone Wild Apiaries”
FeralBeeProject.com
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalHoneybeeArticles

******************************************************
* Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at:          *
* http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm  *
******************************************************