>To me this was a superficial test using sick bees.

I'm curious as to your choice of the word "superficial"!  What other
possible data do you feel could possibly have been rung out of those
colonies?

As far as "sick bees,"  I personally wouldn't have called them "sick" at the
beginning of the trial.  The deliberate intention of the trial was to test
"real life" commercial colonies in a "real life" commercial operation over
an entire season.  IMHO, the intention was fulfilled.  It is my
understanding that the beekeepers chose the colonies as "real life"
respresentatives, since they had previously objected to Bayer's use of
"healthy" colonies in previous tests.

To me, your objection puts Bayer in an impossible situation--healthy bees
won't satisfy the HBAB, and bees with normal mite and nosema loads won't
satisfy you.  Perhaps you could help to design the next trial--I'm sure that
you have the contact info for the HBAB.

>Hackenberg's observations ran longer than the test and he claimed to see
some of the things differently from what what was reported.

I greatly respect Hackenberg's observations, but after the end of the
official EIGHT-MONTH long trial, his observations were only on the four
remaining Movento colonies, and three control colonies.  In October, the
Movento colony mite count had jumped to 15 mites per 100 bees (15%), whereas
the controls had dropped to 10% (I really have no idea whether he continued
to treat them identically after the trial).

To me, it is not the least bit surprising that the Movento colonies died.
However, I can't see any reason, based upon the data, to suspect that
Movento exposure had anything whatsoever to do with it.  Especially since
the Movento group's overall health status score was higher than that of the
control group's at every assessment after spray exposure (in April, May,
June, and October).

I have obtained a copy of the presentation, and am seeing if I can make
arrangements to have it posted to the Web for all to view so that they can
make up their own minds.

Allen, citrus growers are going to do all they can to keep their orchards
alive.  Beekeepers are looking for safer pesticides to use to control the
psyllid, since the current chemicals are, in their opinion, toxic to bees.
To me, the question isn't whether Movento is harmless;  the question is
whether it is an improvement over the currently registered pesticides.

Randy Oliver

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