Hello Allen & All,
Buy where you *can* get >straight answers and hygienic queens.
I would try a few queens from several sources and decide for myself. Always
a lot of hype from each queen breeder about their queens.
 > That was about a month ago, now.  How are we making out?
We are going to start grafting from SMR instrumentally inseminated breeder
queens in August. All the hygienic breeder queens from the sellers of
breeder queens have been as advertised. Allen the problem with keeping the
production queens hygienic lies in the mating yards. If the matings are not
with drones from Hygienic hives then the trait can be  reduced by up to 50%.
The same is true with SMR or Russian queens.
> Have others on the list written or phoned suppliers to demand hygienic
> stock?
Most queen breeders in the U.S. couldn't keep up with the demand this year.
Hard to demand when when the demand is greater than the supply. The problem
with many queen breeders is they don't buy outside lines of breeder queens
to incorporate into their lines they have been working with for years. Many
do but are cautious about risking their reputation on the offspring from a
queen from another source.
 What is your experience?
Open mated queens can vary greatly. If I do not like a hives production or
qualities I requeen. Many hobby beekeepers keep queens for years till the
queen is killed  by her daughters or swarms. I don't. I can't afford to keep
a queen which doesn't produce *hygienic* or not.
> Has anyone on the list done any side-by-side tests between commercial
> stocks using the pin test or liquid nitrogen?
Only on instrumentally inseminated hygienic breeder queens.
 < I should this it would be  simple and enlightening for those who buy
queens <from several suppliers.  The results of such tests should be a real
eye-<opener.
 I understand your search for hygienic qualities in queens. I also see your
point about the value of getting all stocks hygienic so we can get off the
chemical treadmill but at present time honey production and prolific is two
qualities we look for when selecting our own queens to graft from. At
present I would put hygienic behavior about third on the list of items to
select for. For polination hives I would put the trait of flying first in
the morning ahead of hygienic behavior.Goes without saying we don't graft
from aggressive colonies.
> I'm hoping that within a year we will be seeing regular reports from
> members of this list comparing their experience with queens they buy and
> test, naming names and giving credit to those breeders who get with the
> program early on.
If you have good luck with a queen breeders queens then by all means send in
your comments. Because of the varables with open mated queens I don't
believe its fair to queen breeders to have each problem posted on the net.
Almost all U.S.queen breeders have been in business many many years. Post
the positive and let the Bee-L people choose. Example would be the last
weeks comments on Weavers. All was positive about bees and service with one
complaint about a SMR queen being a dud. I thought we were going to get a
explanation why the queen was a *dud*? If the SMR queen was a open mated
production queen I doubt the queens offspring  would be able to resist
varroa if mated with a inferior drone. Open mated changes the senario. Drone
unknown. QUEEN INTRODUCTION PROBLEMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM OF THE QUEEN
BREEDER. DEAD QUEENS ON ARRIVAL ARE HANDLED IN MOST CASES BY THE POST OFFICE
THROUGH INSURANCE.
> AFAIK, in the US, Pat Heikam is an early convert to the hygienic way of
> doing things.  I am hoping that this is resulting in better prices and
> strong demand for his queens.  Who else has hygienic stock, and have
> members confirmed this with their own testing of the progeny?
I believe Pat is sincere about his search for hygienic bees. The proof as
Allen says IS in the testing. I plan to do some testing only not today or
this week. Maybe I will this fall. Surely I will get my hygienic testing
done next spring.
> If not, then why not?
Spending time I should be testing up on Bee-L. Is there a *Bee-L patch* for
Bee-L addiction?
> Let's hear some feedback.
 I imagine you have heard enough from me. One more week of *light duty* from
surgery and back to regular working honeybees. Most won't miss my long posts
but hopefully a few will.
bob