At 11:20 AM 12/31/97 -0500, jim jensen wrote:
 
Hi Jim,
 
>What are the REAL objections to an Organic Certified Honey.??
 
The difference between certified Organic Honey and not certified can not be
measured other then the cost to certify it and the wording of the label.
 
I have a smaller irrational but real fear that if this kind of regulation
and taxing were made law in a short time all beekeepers would be paying the
same tax to level the playing field for those who want Federal Organic
Honey Laws as if it is that easy for some to pay then why not have them all
pay. A national tax by way of new fees on bees to support Honey House
Standardization has been in the wind for decades.
 
>#1. You don't HAVE to do it if you don't want to.  So if people don't want
>to provide it - they should get out of the discussion.  Flaming the issue
>is no help.
 
"FLAMING is in the eye of the reader and should not be used to dismiss
honest discussion or even good old argument as knowing the difference is
the real value of social intercourse."  said Harem Scarem *1997 or was it
Honest Abe Linchpin the used car dealer for NJ?
 
>#2. There IS a need for it.  Even on this list I see discussion on the
>different possibilities of contamination.  Thru apistan, thru forage, thru
>HFCS especially!  There are real humans who desire that their food is
>clean.  I am one.
 
Nothing wrong with this, and the protection of the state and the good
judgement of the beekeepers is with you, keeping all honey free of
contamination right now and if there is need for improvement it should be
done in the existing framework of laws, rules, and regulations and not with
separate and new laws and taxes.
 
 
>#3. It is do-able.  Organic farmers can provide clean forage.  Allowing the
>bees to make their own foundation is possible.  Treatment options exist.
>Perhaps what isn't possible is to continue taking everything from the bees
>without giving back.  Factory production mentality doesn't work with
>organic approaches.
 
I can assure you that for most there is NO WAY that you can produce 100%
clean honey no matter what you pay in additional taxes or what mountain top
you keep your bees on.  Bee hive products, including honey are
representative of the total environment and not just some micro area the
bees are reared in, so if there is a problem in the environment it will
show up in the bee hive and its products if you want to look at small
enough particles of the products, such as parts per billion, trillion.. NO
one know if these small amounts of contamination is bad or just natural in
organic foods.
 
As far as your advice on keeping bees and leaving more honey on, as far as
I know most do that now, but I can tell you that if you did nothing other
then leaving all the honey the bees produced on them, and had no other
problems, pests, or you name it, those hives would be just as dead in three
years time or less, at least in the areas I have kept bees in the US..
Honey bees in most areas of the world that they are not native require
keepers to survive, when beekeepers are all gone there will be few if any
honey bees in the US. The so called feral populations in the US that got so
much press the last year are no more then the reflections of the kept hive
bee populations and without the hive bee population goodbye feral
populations if this has anything to do with Organic Honey, I am not sure.
 
>The only thing I don't understand is the tax issue.  Is it set up so that
>"organic" honey is taxed and the honey with contaminants and god knows what
>is not???
 
My God knows that the vast majority of honey produced by beekeepers around
the world is pure, natural, and organic; produced with the personal pride
of beekeepers that keeps it from being contaminated other then what is
natural and organic and it is no better nor worse that what one would find
if his honey was delivered from the wild bee tree in the same area, and
that bee tree honey is about as pure, natural and organic as it gets.
 
Anytime the government of the US gets involved in its own brand of
legalized consumer fraud the cost of doing business goes up. Just look at
the spring waters in Hot Springs, Arkansas, 100% US Government regulated
for an example how far they will go in ripping off the public by law. I am
sure there are defenders of the natural spring waters but that does not
make it right.
 
ttul, the OLd Drone
 
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