> To continue the thread, I agree about using caution on old frames
> that may harbor AFB, but, I depend on trees for my honey, and being
> a conservationist at heart I can't see tossing all old frames.  Most
> of my old frames are generated by blow-outs that the wax moths beat
> me to. Most of these blow-outs can be attributed to queen failure,
> and I monitor my operation closely for disease and I do not tolerate
> any AFB symptoms. So I build up a supply of old frames and every
> couple of years have a big boil-up in the winter followed by a
> scrape-out and then a refitting of foundation.  I just finished
> rehabbing about 100 deeps worth of old frames and they look good and
> are on the bees as we speak waiting to be drawn out.
>
> I have calculated the cost of reuse versus new and the reuse comes
> out ahead by about 40 percent, and I feel a lot better about the
> tree situation.
 
Well, we've gone through this a time or two before (Aug - Oct 94?),
with some interesting input from Down Under.
 
Without going into great detail again, I'll just say that the furor
over AFB and other diseases in North America seems to be to a large
extent promoted by the new equipment purveyors and government
agencies who used them to justify their own existence.  The latter
kept the AFB going by recommending drug does that were just a
little less than what was needed to really knock it down and
out, but enough to suppress it very temporarily.
 
AFB, EFB, and nosema can be controlled with the normal drugs applied
wisely and in correct measure -- without a scorch and boil routine.
 
There is no reason to boil frames unless you think you might be
in an area wgere there are no other sources of contamination than
your own hives.
 
Where I keep bees, there are other beekeepers, feral hives, hobby
beekeepers scattered around and homes where people throw old honey
containers in the garbage which is sometimes then scattered by dogs.
 
(AFAIK this honey is not from NZ (where there is no _official_ AFB --
or consequent clandestine TM treatment) -- nor Hawaii (where all the
bees are known to be healthy until until they are overwhelmed by
escaped NZ bees on their way to Canada).  It is likely from the
USA, or heaven forbid, even Canada where -- as we have recently heard
from a credible source -- diseases and chemicals run rampant).
 
We see a little foulbrood from time to time (in less than 1% of our
hives) but I have to tell you that it is always due to the fact that
in a large outfit sometimes groups of hives are missed in medicating --
sometimes for long periods of time.
 
We do not scorch boxes, we do not boil frames, and quite frankly,
we don't worry about the odd cell of scale when making up brood
chambers,  We try to look at all the combs, but there is always some
scale that hides out under pollen or honey, or is just plain missed.
We do have to work on cloudy days sometimes.
 
When we find scale, if the comb is otherwise good, we flatten the
cells somewhat to help loosen the scale (bees have trouble removing
much scale unless they are strong and the weather is warm) and use
those frames right in the middle of a brood chamber.  We make sure
those hives are well medicated and within the year they are no more
likely to break down with disease than any other.
 
I know that people are going to find this hard to believe, but
Phillips was quoted years ago as syaing he would buy nothing but AFB
equipment because it was so cheap and so easy to clean up.
 
This was back when sulpha was allowed.  It was the magic bullet
against AFB, but we've found TM to be just as good, just not as
persistent.
 
Now I'm not trying to suggest that everyone can or should do this.
I'm just trying to point out that most environments have a background
level of AFB, and making your hive a perfectly AFB free area may keep
*you* out of trouble Friday nights, but chances are it doesn't do
much for your bees.
 
Boiling your woodenware in lye does not increase its strength.
Scorching your boxes does not make them stronger.
 
If, and only if you are planning to avoid the use of drugs, and live
in total isolation, -- or live in a country where TM is not allowed
-- are these measures likely to do a whole lot of good.
 
But I know people will continue to believe in these practices, and
they don't do much harm.  However, if you are moving up to
commercial from hobbyist and find your days are short as you find
more new work than you can handle, this is something you can give up
without any loss at all.
 
Regards
 
Allen
 
W. Allen Dick, Beekeeper                                         VE6CFK
RR#1, Swalwell, Alberta  Canada T0M 1Y0
Internet:[log in to unmask] & [log in to unmask]
Honey. Bees, & Art <http://www.internode.net/~allend/>