Pbl
If you look at the history of this thread, I did not take it down the rabbit hole, I just fed it like crazy once it went there.  Here would be a good place for a smiley.

I have had this discussion on breeding to average many times and my logic with no background learning tells me that at some point in any change, there was only one.  For the change to be seen, one turns into two.  However, there is just so much that one guy can put together "info wise" and reading as much as I can, I just see clues for and clues against it working that way.

The other thing that I could not figure wether it helps or hurts in low number change against big number populations are the multiple daddies (drones) and the fact that it might not take a hive full but just one daddy out of what is in the hive to have a possible heath advantage giving it more influince then the whole hive.  There is a member on "The other site" that is like you in his tallent to find study after study to post so we can discuss.  I wish I had that talent.  We still discuss many things from opposite views and I still have no answers that I am sure of. 

Are arican bees stopped in thier range by rain fall?  If yes and local adaption is possible, should we not have seen a change by now?  

Charles
There are not that many in major beekeeping cause it is hard work and there are probly easier ways to make a living.  What I have seen from the few I get a chance to see interations on is that they don't all do things the same way.  What can not be discounted is that they are successful and that they reconize what the other guy is doing and can see the merrit but also know the merrit of what they are doing.   Even on agg farming and compitition to get the most, they still have the studies out there that show cover crops rather then weed killing can shown bigger results.  However it is like all things when you pick your poisen, you can't leave anything out and get the same results depending on which path you picked.  By the way, I saw this on an ag. news program.

You mention the pink eye in cows.  I always think of the chicken.  Most chickens when they get sick to where you can see it are almost dead.  Not a lot of study has gone into curing a lot of chicken stuff cause of the cost compared to the chicken.  Most don't take a five dollar chicken to a fourty dollar vet on the chance that the chicken might be cured.  There are flock wide things to watch for and react to but it is not broke down to individual chickens.

The point is that most ag for profit have decisions based on cost vers profit.  It is a buisness.  The things pursued are done by those wanting to sell something or the guy growing wanting more.

I think those same motivations are there for the guys that persue professional bee keeping.  The more oppertunity for making more money the more effort put towards the study of something.  When you talk about hoby bee keeping compared to professional bee keeping, I always think of how I grew up.  I grew up on a small 80 acre farm.  We had about 7 cows, one bull and would buy bucket calves and put them on the one milk cow and raise them or just bucket feed them.  We had three sows and we would raise feeder pigs.  A couple of horses just for fun.  My dad worked full time at a factory.

Around the 80/90s the government passed legislation on the waste from running pigs.  The farms combined and raising pigs became big operations with 35,000 pigs and much lower margins on how much was made off of each pig.  This could be taken as an advancement or it could be taken as a monopoly that the only way to make money off of pigs and meet the regulations was to be big.

I don't know which way fed the most people.  I am not convinced that 3 guys doing what used to be done by 3000 guys that did more then one thing actually fed more people but it may have.  When we talk about life and which is better over all, it becomes a little harder.

I am into bee for the same reason I raised bucket calves as a youth.  Best practices, maby not?  Then again, if I lose 80 percent of my hives, it probly does not hurt the industery as bad as if the guy with 3000 hives would.  Of course due to keeping practices, this would never happen to the 3000 hive guy?

I don't know.  I am consintrating on bees small scale and want to learn as much as I can before I die for no particular reason.  

I never mind people pushing back on things I say (cause I may not know much) but if it is done with just a you don't know, I will probly push a little harder till I get a better answer or get ignored compleetly.  Never with ill will though.
You wrote so many words I thought it was one of my post.  Thank you for taking the time and effort to do that.

Cheers
gww

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