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" But I think
you do a disservice to some beekeepers that DO have a problem with
neonics by assuming that their problems stem from not keeping varroa
under control. "
Locally only three other people that I know of control varroa. All have good survivability. Then there are the large number who do nothing at all about varroa and have 70 to 100% hive deaths per year and blame Monsanto's neonics or round up including many just as far from agriculture as I am.
I am sure someone someplace has problems with neonics killing his bees. We all know planter dust can be deadly. We also all know that spraying trees in bloom with neonics is deadly. But, we also know people who live in a big Ag desert surrounded by crops treated with neonics and round up who do not have unreasonable hive deaths.
I think by far the largest problem we have is PPB.
Dick
" Any discovery made by the human mind can be explained in its essentials to the curious learner." Professor Benjamin Schumacher talking about teaching quantum mechanics to non scientists. "For every complex problem there is a solution which is simple, neat and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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On Sat, 4/4/15, Stan Sandler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Subject: Re: [BEE-L] IPM and neonicotinoids
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Saturday, April 4, 2015, 6:56 PM
> It is a lot more
productive to treat for varroa than to make up facts about
neonics or any other pesticide being a problem for my
bees.
I am glad that
neonics are not a problem for you Richard. But I think
you do a disservice to some beekeepers that DO
have a problem with
neonics by assuming that
their problems stem from not keeping varroa
under control. The PMRA clearly found that in
the year when there was
a very dry spring
neonics were the cause of spring losses in Ontario.
Bayer has paid out compensation to beekeepers
in Germany and Italy
from losses that were
clearly from neonics.
The
sub lethal effects are not as clear and so much more
problematical, but you are or were a chemist
and a scientist, and so I
would think that
the fact that there are several hundreds of papers on
sub lethal effects that rang alarm bells in the
29 scientists that
reviewed them might make
you rethink accusing beekeepers who are
having problems and looking at neonics as
contributing to them of
"making up
facts".
I have a lot
of hives and have had them for many years. Although I
do
not blame neonics for any problems at
present, I still am convinced
that they
caused me a lot of losses in the past at the time when
foliar spraying and soil injection was the way
that they were applied.
Varroa was never a
problem at that time. It had just come to PEI and
was easily controlled by fluvalinate strips and
it was too early for
residue from the strips
to be affecting the bees. If the products
caused problems for me at the concentrations
they were using then, but
are tolerable at
the lower concentrations they now use, that does not
give me a lot of confidence in them. And I
also remember that I did
NOT have much bee
kill from the sprays used before neonics, despite
the fact that potato fields were sprayed
regularly because bees do not
visit potatoes
and the fields do not have weeds in them.
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