Jerry,

Your comments on top bar hives reflect a similar experience to mine several years ago, which resulted in my building several long hives that use regular frames. 

The bees still react calmly to the lid being lifted so have the advantages of a top bar with the convenience of frames. Productivity is lower than Langs unless honeycombs are removed regularly.

> I really like having it around so that we can  show our classes what
> a more natural comb looks like -- e.g., bees building in a log.

Have not used foundation for a few years now. New frames are strung but only have a starter strip and are placed between drawn frames - the bees draw a range of cell sizes with smallest in the center. Colonies seem to do better on the natural comb than foundation but that's not an objective judgment since there are no control colonies living on foundation to compare them with. 

> Its pretty great for photographs.  You can also lift the lid without
> any bees flying out.

That is true also of horizontals. Even though the bees could fly out, they do not bother.

> the inability to extract honey without destroying the comb

Not a problem in a horizontal since it has regular frames.

> compared to packages placed in Dadant hives on foundation, this
> colony was slow growing.

My yard is a mix of horizontals and Langs, and if I had to choose between them in terms of colony growth I would give the edge to horizontals.

> if one opts to treat for mites, nosema, or feed pollen or  syrup
> you have to figure out  how to do it, since the top bar hive  we have has
> no passageways past the bars - so you  can't just put a patty,  bottle, etc.
> on the bars.  Minor point, but one that adds time  and effort...

That was a major point for me, bugged me badly that things were so clumsy with a top bar, the horizontals solved that issue.

> Third, the bees insist on bridging their comb to the side-walls - Scott came
> up with his own tool for breaking them loose so he can pull out the frames
> to inspect.  That said, inspection is possible, so the top bar meets the
> legal requirement in our state, but it is slower -  one  has to be careful
> to cut the combs loose, lift straight up.  Don't even think  about tipping
> the comb upside down or laying it flat to get a better look. Anything other
> than perpendicular and the comb starts to bends and sag and  can fall off
> onto your foot.

True, handling is a pain, have to be way too careful with the combs. TBH enthusiasts insist that bees stop bridging comb to the sides after it hardens. My bees didn't care how old and hard the comb was, they always bridged to the sides. Cutting side comb away made them cranky, and they stayed that way for a few days afterwards.

> Fourth, we've tried to get the bees to tell us whether they are happier,
> but we can't decipher their comments.  We don't see any obvious
> differences based on flight, noise, temperament.

I see a difference in temperament, horizontals are worked without smoke and no gear but usually suit up for the Langs. 

> Now, I like comb honey much  better than extracted honey

I've got a few frames that are not strung but have a center bar so bees can draw comb honey. 

Top bars proved an interesting but dissatisfying experience, and am glad of the experiment because it led to the alternative of horizontal hives that I enjoy more than Langs.

I have no way to gauge whether the bees are happier in a horizontal hive building natural comb either, but this beekeeper is.

             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html

Guidelines for posting to BEE-L can be found at:
http://honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm