> Are you suggesting that because *we don't know everything*, or that some procedures don't work for everyone, we should shut up until until we do know everything or have advice that works for all and everybody? 

Peter,
Again, I enjoyed your response, -very polite letter!
I agree, we do not know everything!  Seeing a few main characters 
on the list grieving with devastating losses.  I appreciate their 
honesty in committing that information to the list, that takes guts,
and is helpful to others learning experience.

The statement was also meant to convey the message that 
perhaps the door should opened a bit wider to other management 
techniques and ideas which may be working in various areas of the 
country.  And I am witnessing this happening already, -lately, I 
have been able to say the 'F' Word (feral) -without getting slammed 
-as happened in the past.   I see the 'N' word (natural beekeeping)
is being allowed to be discussed also, 'this is good! 
 
>Let me tell you, I have heard a lot of bad advice lately. A friend told me that she was advised not to look at her newly hived swarm for two weeks. I suggested looking in right away to see if she even got the queen. In two days she should see eggs.

I agree!

Lets entertain this question.
I would advise:
If you miss seeing the queen walking into, or unable to hand deliver 
her into the hive.  I will open up the hive after most of the bees 
are in, and take a quick search for the queen.  This, is the 
best time to look, no smoke needed, bees will be gentile, and 
queen generally easy to find at this time.  And also, you need to 
determine which side of the excluder the queen may be on,
-risk loosing them.  

I May differ from you concerning advising newbees on the day 
for the laying queen check.  I prefer, to instill in the newbee, the habit of 
coordinating tasks which can be performed to one visit, -they will
need to be practiced at this to be successful.

I advise to check for eggs at 'about' 4 days.
The reason here is, the difficulty a newbee may encounter -finding
a small patch of eggs at 2 days, and also perhaps more eggs / hatched
by that time will make visual identification of a laying queen 
more certain for a newbee.    And also, for the reason of coordinating
hive tasks,  -at about the 4th day, the removal of the queen excluder 
must be done by then, or as soon as possible.

>So, we have to work twice as hard to get good information out, fight back claims that science has failed, that knowledge is spit, and that granddaddy's ways were always better.

I agree.
But who are "we"? 

Your comment regarding ones ability to question science
is not conducive to the fundamentals that science was built on.
This, according to the way Einstein approached science . 

“Science is always open to criticism, doubt, inventing theories to 
describe and explain phenomena, and challenges to authority”
The Grand Fantasy of Einstein: 
The Search for the Theory of the Universe
By Tim Voigt  -2010 

Are we open here at Bee-L?

Einstein’s success came from questioning conventional wisdom 
and challenging authority.  Dennis Van,,,, earned a tremendous
degree of respect from me when he allowed me to 
question science that he supported, and even allowed me
the questioning of some things about the colony
inspection program that I disagreed with.  This ability of 
Dennis to allow me to question authority has caused
me to develop a great deal of trust and respect for the man. 
As it stands, I must say I do not trust that many on this list are out 
for the best interests of others, instead, mostly only interested
in protecting their own interests, by the stifling other peoples ability 
to doubt and question.   As a rule, I tend not to trust those that 
are not open to a little doubt and criticism.

There was just today, a story on NPR that the biggest 
problem China is facing -is the inability to be creative and 
solve problems.  Students in China (said the reporter) are
thought to memorize former research and established science
already achieved by others.  They are thought "not to question."  
They actually 'fear asking a question' due to the teaching 
that you do not question authority.  They are not thought
creative thinking. 

What are you teaching here? 
If you wish to dictate science, and not allow doubt 
and questions.  
Does that sound a bit like China?  

Best Wishes,
Joe Waggle

 

             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html

Guidelines for posting to BEE-L can be found at:
http://honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm