uff boys to many threads open ...

CP:

>Bill T: Yes. Protein should not exceed about 30% as the higher you go the
closer you
get to protein toxicity which is observed at 50%.

>Randy :  I believe that refers to a total diet, not necessarily to a
free-choice patty.  Allen?

>Allen: I tend to agree, assuming that the diet offered is not the sole food
available.

I second this. We are talking about supplements and not sustitutes. It is
never the sole food around, there is always the body contents of the nurse
bee as the last resource. Remember that the money of the hive is the royal
jelly. When the body reserves run out, you can not get brood solely with
suplements. The colony economy starts to shink (using Randy's analogy)
because what we give the colony is not a sustitute. It lack some things, we
still dont know.

Gut:
>Allen: Something I failed to mention in the previous post was that the
preservatives work best in an acidic product and are ineffective in basic
materials.  As for the gut of bees consuming foods, I assume (there is that
word again) that bees have good buffering capabilities and can control the
gut environment.  I don't know what the native pH and range of comfort of a
bee gut is, but maybe deknow will assist here since that is his department.

Deknow (or any one else), any clues over Allen question?

>Garret: We know eggs are high in cholesterol but it doesn't come in the
form that the bees can utilizes.

Can you expand more on this Garret?


Nosema Gut

>Randy : Nosema does not grow in the gut--it grows inside the epithelial
cells, the
interiors of which are isolated from the gut pH.  The resistant spores are
discharged into the gut lumen.

You are right that the nosema spores do not grow in the gut, rather in the
epithelial cells, but they brake their dormancy in the gut and "decide" to
grow in the e.cell, therefore PH in the medium could be a factor on this
"decition".

>Allen: I have no idea if these preservatives have any effect on nosema, but
the inconsistent reports that protein feeding having a positive effect makes
me wonder.

>I doubt most of the people using proprietary bee feeds have any clue what
is really in them, so it makes sense that it could be something besides the
protein in the diet.  The preservatives would be a logical place to start.

Before the ephotelium cells  there is the peritorifc
membrane<http://esa.confex.com/esa/2002/techprogram/paper_6256.htm%20>which
grows (get thiker) with more protein. As the polar filament of the
nosema spore has a finite length, if the peritrophic membrane is thiker it
would never reach the epithelial cells, failing in its attempt to reproduce.
I believe this is the path for the "inconsistent reports that protein
feeding having a positive effect ".





---------------


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Juanse Barros J.
APIZUR S.A.
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Gorbea - CHILE
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08-3613310
http://apiaraucania.blogspot.com/
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