Hi All

A few points cherry picked form Murray's post to Robert.

> just our tough local bees,

The bees in Murray's area have background genetics that have been in 
that region for thousands of years (I'll let others argue over whether 
it is 9,000 or 15,000 years, but they were not brought by the Romans as 
some are currently suggesting).

> I have never done any morphometry and 
> probably never will. Its fine detail that does not really concern me as 
> all I want are robust vigorous and hard working bees. In our climate 
> this invariably means dark but does not HAVE to mean Amm.

Morphometry can give additional information, but should never be the 
final arbiter of the usefulness of a bee. The behaviours and traits that 
the beekeeper recognises in the bees and matches to the circumstances is 
what matters, racial purity should not be a goal, although as it 
increases stability becomes easier to achieve. There are some that seek 
total racial purity, but I feel that they are chasing rainbows, stable 
and repeatable (predictable) characteristics are what is required.

> I have never noticed any of the reputed 
> problems attributed to crosses, in fact crosses are often great. Dark 
> phase NWC virgins (see earlier posts about open mating and Italian 
> drones. Only choose the dark ones as they have an NWC dad as well) 
> crossed on local dark bees ( which are predominantly Amm) is a truly 
> excellent cross, and its vigour takes two or three generations to revert 
> back to the local mean.

Maybe the crosses that I have played with are different to Murray's, but 
first crosses in my area are often quite nasty in temper and will meet 
you on your way to the apiary. Murray's comment about predominantly Amm 
drone making good fathers to his NWC stock is born out by what happened 
as my breeding operation came to a close, My breeding apiary was less 
than three miles from an apiary run by my local beekeeping association, 
ten years ago I was still actively putting high numbers of A. m. 
mellifera drones into area and matings at the association apiary 
produced calm bees that did not exhibit the nastiness usually associated 
with crosses, as my health and activity declined the number of drones 
fell and ceased altogether about five years ago, the matings that now 
occur at the association apiary give rise to nasty and untrustworthy 
colonies.

> I would say just persist with the bees you like, no matter what the 
> morphometry says. Its all a bit nazi to me, perfectly good bees rejected 
> because their wing venation is not as desired.

If things become bigoted to the extent that Murray mentions, I agree, 
but we should be looking at behaviour first and foremost, Morphometry 
may tell you information about hybridisation, but should never overrule 
behaviour. We are on the threshold whereby DNA becomes more important in 
beekeeping, but again this tells us additional information, it is the 
behaviour and its fit with the environment that the bee has to live in 
that matters.

-- 
Regards & Best 73s, Dave Cushman, G8MZY
http://melliferabees.net Email: [log in to unmask]
Short FallBack M/c, Build 7.21/2.01
Son of ORAC M/c, Build 5.o1/2.o1

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