>>Hold on there - we are talking about NEW PACKAGES, installed on
irradiated or non-irradiated comb, and then treated "exactly the 
same" (as best as could be asked).  The irradiated combs directly 
resulted in colonies with a significantly better survival rate. 

That was my point!  Irradiated comb will give colonies a sort of a head start/ temporary respite by knocking off all [good and bad] organisms.  Over time both types will recover their numbers.  Then what - irradiate again?  Clearly a short term fix at best that one will need to pay for to apply again and again.  

What if bees on clean comb with access to clean forage, could deal with pathogens?  Would it not be nice?  One would not need to resort to radiation.

>>(As I explained, the gamma radiation is not going to impact pesticides on the combs at all.)

A fellow Bee-L-er, not wishing to cross tennis raquets :) with you on this forum, privately offered a couple tidbits of info to the contrary.  One reads:

'Decontamination of pesticide packing using ionizing radiation
C.L. Duarte , a, , M.N. Moria, Yasko Kodamaa, H. Oikawaa and M.H.O. Sampaa aInstituto de Pesquisas Energéticas e Nucleares—IPEN-CNEN/SP Av. Lineu Prestes 2.242, 05508-900, São Paulo, SP, Brazil
Received 27 December 2006; accepted 16 February 2007. Available online 10 May 2007.
Abstract
The Brazilian agriculture activities have consumed about 288,000 tons of pesticides per year conditioned in about 107,000,000 packing with weight of approximately 23,000 tons. The discharge of empty plastic packing of pesticides can be an environmental concern causing problems to human health, animals, and plants if done without inspection and monitoring. The objective of this work is to study the ionizing radiation effect in the main pesticides used in Brazil for plastic packing decontamination. Among the commercial pesticides, chlorpyrifos has significant importance because of its wide distribution and extensive use and persistence. The radiation-induced
degradation of chlorpyrifos in liquid samples and in polyethylene pack was studied by gamma radiolysis. Packing of high-density polyethylene (HDPE) three layer coextruded, named COEX,
contaminated with chlorpyrifos, were irradiated using both a multipurpose Co-60 gamma irradiator and a gamma source with 5000 Ci total activity Gamma cell type. The chemical analysis of the
chlorpyrifos was made using a gas chromatography associated to the Mass Spectrometry—GCMS from Shimadzu Model QP 5000. Gamma radiation was efficient for removing chlorpyrifos from the plastic packing, in all studied cases.'

>>I have yet to see any data that would lead any reasonable observer
to speculate about a two-stage process, where immune systems are 
compromised by some "root cause" and an otherwise non-fatal pathogen 
delivers the coup de grace.  

Right.  The science of evaluating the optimum immune system of bees is largely unexplored.  [The fact does not make it non-existant.]  Parallels to the human immune system can be drawn though.  And the immune system of humans is influenced by stress (www.mayoclinic.com/health/stress/SR00001).  Being constantly in a fight or flight mode from stress will unbalance your hormones, health, immune response etc.  Why would it be different for bees?

>>I'm really getting a little tired of speculation about a "root cause" that does nothing but allow those with an agenda to condemn "modern beekeeping" or "modern agriculture" as "misguided". 

I don't like pigeon-holing people into some 'agenda-driven camp,' Jim.  That is not fair.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  This is a discussion forum and ccd is still unsolved.  Any opinion on ccd from people who have not witnessed ccd is basically opinion/speculation/hypothesis.

>>...if you want to condemn "commercial beekeeping" in general, 
you'd first have to show us that all hives, or at least the majority in "commercial beekeeping" are suffering from the problem, and showing the same symptoms.  

I have not condemned commercial beekeeping.  Some practices may not be optimum when applied in commercial or hobby settings though.

>>There's only one little problem here.  You have no way to measure
"the immune system", nor do you have any way to make even a relative
qualitative comparison between one hive and another, or one bee and
another in terms of "immune system".

Agreed but...  Take any apiary with a good number of hives, go from hive to hive, and you are bound to see differences in vigor.  Since bee immune system science is unsophisticated, we can only use the methods available to us.

>>Phrases like "bringing back the immune system" are the language of the snake oil salesman, and the late-night infomercial peddlers of herbal nutritional supplements. 

Well, no.  Don't go by informationals, go by science.  Read what the National Cancer Institute thinks about boosting the immune system.  If chemotherapy and radiation for cancer weaken the human immune system, pesticides in the hive can weaken the bees' immune system.   

Waldemar

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