Hello Peter & All,

> Just to repeat, the primary indicator of CCD is "lots of brood, but few
bees, and no dead bees in the hive". If you have a dead-out with "dead bees
but no brood", you can't blame CCD..

Maybe but maybe not. Is the above the *only* indicator when we really do not
have a smoking gun?

The above was the way CCD was explained to us at the ABF convention. Lance
Sundberg said his first semi load to crash were very strong with lots of
brood and ALL dead within two weeks of arriving in California WITH the CCD
team definition of the CCD symptoms..

The above is NOT what the reported case in Missouri (not my bees) looked
like but the beekeeper thought because he had such a big (and fast) die off
he must have had some  CCD. He found some abandoned brood in hives but due
to drought all the Missouri bees shut down all brood rearing early last
August.  Regardless of CCD he dropped from 650 hives to a hundred which is a
huge drop in numbers. He was picking up over fifty hives dead a week last
fall at the same time the others were having problems. Myself and a police
detective/beekeeper can verify he had the losses if needed.

However those boxes have now got bees back in them which may cause an
indemnity payoff to be for future losses. I have spent time trying to find
out if the old program *WHEN STARTED* was retroactive. I remember the
program but never collected and so have forgotten if those pesticide kills
before the program started were retroactive.

Until set in concrete the whole indemnity thing is based in *rumor* but I
have heard from a reliable source that one national group wants to go back
over two years.

The survey is a tool the CCD team feels it needs but much of the latest  CCD
diagnosis on the survey is based on a beekeeper diagnosis. I personally
think the "Catch the Buzz" symptoms should be easy to understand and use as
a diagnosis tool.

I have now got reliable information that both national groups have had many
conference calls concerning CCD and the package replacement so word is
moving through the industry fast so in my opinion now it will be harder for
the CCD team to rely on the new survey information.

The reason I refer to the early reports and information like Dick's article
for the best source of information on the problem named CCD.

bob


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