allen dick wrote:

> I guess, also, what I'm saying is that if people post to BEE-L, they
> should
> expect some queries, some doubt, and some challenge.  This is a
> university
> server, and, after all, and although most of what goes on here is not all
> that rigourous, there is an expectation of some debate and examination of
> ideas.  I, personally have benefitted immensely from being challenged,
> and
> have learned a lot over the years from those who disagreed with me.  I
> have
> learned very little from those who never do..

I read the original post and was not going to comment.  However, your
post brought me back to remembering what this list is all about.

I have several problems with what was observed in the original post,
especially the loss of one colony to PMS when there may have been no
mites only three weeks before (there was no mite count noted so we
really do not know). My other concern was that inspections for PMS were
made every week (a bit much but seems to be normal for new beekeepers)
and none was found. Inspections should be for Varroa, not the results of
Varroa. When you see PMS you are too far gone in the process. The sugar
roll should precede finding PMS. It should be based on Varroa drop. What
was described was backwards and would lead to Varroa collapse.

If a colony dies of PMS after three weeks and no Varroa were detected
before that, then something is wrong with the detection method. I have
seen many hives (one of which was mine) with high Varroa and no bees
showing PMS. That is a clear indicator to treat. Even so, it still may
be too late going into a Maine winter. Most new beekeepers only look for
K-wing (which is easy to see when obvious, but not always) and do not
see all the other indicators of PMS, including dead larva. It is
interesting that deformed bees may hide in cells so you may never see them!

Plus, it is not a matter of seeing one or more Varroa on drone brood, is
is seeing any mites! One mite is a clear indicator to do a sugar roll to
find out what is really going on, especially if you are inexperienced.

Back to Allen's comments. Many of us who have been on this list for
years see the same kind of posts year by year. Plus, we often see the
same reaction to posts that question a method. Most of us really do not
want to see someone go down a path that has been trod before and has not
been successful or is marginal in its success. We need all the beekeeper
we can get.

But it does get old.

I appreciate Janet's post where she took my comments and checked them
with an experienced beekeeper. That is exactly what she should have
done. (She will be a good beekeeper.) No post on this list should be
taken as gospel, including this one.

If that is unacceptable, there are plenty of other beekeeping lists and
newsgroups where you can find acceptance and unchallenged bad advice.

Also, just check the archives to see how often Allen and I disagreed on
subjects. Lots of good give and take but both of us are still around. I
have learned a lot from him, but we still disagree on certain subjects.
No big deal. That is beekeeping. (Were the bees asked, they would
probably disagree with both of us.)

Bill Truesdell
Bath, Maine

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