Keith, Robin and All,

        "No, the kids were bad and the bees were made example of instead
of the kids." (Keith)

While I agree with my heart, I know in my head destroying the colony was
the only solution.

        "If there were an unbiased official who could have justifiable
authority to determine the correct course of action the bees may have
had rights to be themselves and live in a location other than where they
were killed." (Keith)

I think the only place you can find a "Fair Witness" is in science
fiction. They surely do not live in the US.  Many individuals are
profiting from this situation and will fight to keep it from changing.
(Do a search on tort reform and read some unbelievable accounts.)

        "There was a problem.  A solution was needed.  There were two
sides - health
of public v. health of bees.  So, a case for negotiation."(Robin)

If there was a time for negotiation it was well before the incident
occurred, and any negotiation would and could only cover feral colonies
that are discovered BEFORE they cause a problem. Once the stinging
starts, attacking feral bees will have about the same rights as a rabid
dog.  Any time there is the slightest threat, the public will always
prevail.  Just ask Dave Green to tell you how difficult it is to stop
totally sanctioned "misuse" of pesticides when there is a potential
threat to public health.

        "WE will agree to removal of  these bees provided the CITY
agrees that not all bees are bad and some living space should be
available to bees." (Robin)

Quite frankly, the city does not have to agree to anything.  Bees in the
city are not providing any great benefit to mankind.  The arguments
about pollination and the world's food supply don't apply.  If bees are
kept in the city it is usually for the benefit of the beekeeper.
Furthermore, feral colonies are considered a nuisance at best.   Don't
get me wrong, I can think of many benefits, but my view is that of a
beekeeper.

        "The children could have got badly hurt thru their ignorance..."

Robin, now here is where we totally agree.  I think education is key to
success.  An uninformed, or worse a misinformed, public is the most
dangerous group on earth.  They will (and have) make completely
irresponsible decisions during and after a crisis. It is that very same
group that acts as a stimulus for the creation of ridiculous
regulations.  I know of one municipality that regulates the purity of
wastewater discharge from industrial sites.  Their standard is so strict
that if a facility wanted to discharge the drinking water (supplied by
the municipality) it would first have to be treated.  They don't like
having industry in their area so they have a number of local regulations
that really discourage anybody from coming in to set up shop.  If this
mentality, that flies in the face of common sense, exists it is a wonder
that beekeeping is permitted anywhere.

        "Ron Bogansky clearly has all the skills/experience to draft a
'negotiation manual for beekeepers for use when bees are under attack in
urban locations'.  What about it , Ron? "

Robin, I take that as a compliment, so thank you very much, but I won't
put my dog in that fight.  I will say this.  Usually when bees, or
anything else, come under attack the cause is one of two reasons.  A
negative incident, which at best all you can do is damage control,
because the Genie is out of the bottle, or an uninformed individual that
just assumes having the bees in the area is cause for concern.  There is
a possibility of working with this one but it just may be easier to move
to the country.  Seriously, the best thing we can do, as already
mentioned by others, is put forth a positive image and work really hard
to educate the public.

Right now I am wondering what has been benefit of my starting this
discussion .  I guess I should go back to extracting and not think so
much.  That's the problem with extracting honey, it gives you too much
time to think which leads to posts on BeeL or honey spilling on the
honey house floor.


Ron Bogansky
Keeping bees somewhere in the US, where you can be sued by an individual
who is injured on your property while trying to steal your television.


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