Hello Keith & All,
I said:
>I do not doubt Dave's observations and only adding mine because they are
different than Dave's observations.
>
Keith said:
That's because you and Dave are talking about two different things in all
respects. Your talking mainly about requeening or putting a new queen into a
queen right colony and Dave is speaking of supersedures and swarm queens.

I thought Dave and I were discusing the percent of times I have actually
seen two queens laying side by side in a hive. Roger must have thought the
same as Roger put the percentage at 5 %.
I believe that maybe different races like the Amm that Dave uses might
tolerate two queens better than the races I use.

Keith said:
Not the same thing at all. workers will kill the queen if a foreign mated
queen is just dropped in on them with a laying queen already in the hive.

I use my method and use of marked queens to say I know  when a queen has
been superceded or a swarm queen was raised by the bees. I like George I.
can not see how a person can tell much about a queen without clipping or
marking.

I NEVER add a new caged queen until the hive has been queenless for the
required amount of time for the bees to KNOW they are queenless. so when I
requeen I am requeening a queenless hive  .

If I find a queen dead in a cage or if the queen is balled after being caged
in the hive for awhile I check for a second queen. I have at times found a
second queen but very vary rare which is unlike what others report.

I do not doubt what others say and only say thats not what I see in my
hives.

In my area of the midwest I suppose I have got the most experience with two
queen hives for honey production. My close friend Tim Tucker (current
president of the Kansas Honey Producers ) is rapidly catching up to me and
has a wonderful power point presentation on the subject.

I learned the most about two queen hives from the late Willard Madole.
Willard died in his nineties, spent a lifetime keeping bees and kept all his
hives two queen for over thirty years. Willard wrote one article about his
method for the American Bee Journal  (vol.125 no.5 May 1985) for those
having acess to old bee journals.

I enjoy talking to Tim as Tim experiements instead of trying to follow  what
the written material says. Tim, Willard and myself found keeping two ladies
laying under the same roof a challenge but  others say easy and happens all
the time.

Keith said:
I am wondering why there is so much confusion discussing these different
queens and how some of you are mixing these queen definitions up. I feel for
the newbees trying to make heads or tails from this.

I believe you might be trying to put a simple label on a complex subject.

Newbees will always be lost on Bee-L until they get a couple years under
their belt and read a few beginner books. We all are willing to help newbees
but at the same time BEE-L IS the number one bee list in the English
speaking world  as far as number of members and activity.

At times  a simple question asked by a new beekeeper can evolve into an
in-depth and complex discussion when all the newbee really wanted was a
simple how to do answer.

I have noticed that a few researchers have started to post again on BEE-L.
Those people  are hard to convince of many our unproven opinions on
beekeeping and why shouldn't they?

Bob

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