[log in to unmask] writes:
What's so puzzling, Dee?
I'm a big fan of "put up or shut up", high-stakes stud poker,
and bake-offs. This is a openly stated attempt to smoke out
someone who would be willing to rent or sell existing small-cell
colonies and their comb for a fair price, and someone else who
has the time/staff to accept a funded study.
Your experience with the staff at Tucson was typical of the
haphazard approach to testing what should be an easy thing
to at least verify under "controlled conditions", if not
verify/prove the exact mechanism(s) at work.
Reply:
Well, Jim, I/we had a signed contract with the USDA on that project for
them
to do the work with our bees on a technical exchange of information that
unfortunately stated in it the bees and equipment that was loaned to them to
do
the work still belonged to us. It was a contract accepted and signed by
regional headquarters in Albany Calif and had a few subcontracts attached
to it,
and a few interested ovreseas to participate. But was told when it ended,
that
politics had to go the other way for awhile due to money needed for the
labs, so much seemingly was put aside. We however continued to do what we
had
started and presented to them on our own when the contract was originally
written, and so accepted the overseas visits started to see what we were
doing,
which was basically what we had always done, to see if we could keep the
bees
alive that way following small cell, with just the change out of the comb
size
regressed back to old standard sizings, before enlargements began, while
using no dopes. Heck, we even dropped the TM and storage stuff going to
propolis
patties, and then nothing.
but you say:
Your experience with the staff at Tucson was typical of the
haphazard approach to testing what should be an easy thing
to at least verify under "controlled conditions", if not
verify/prove the exact mechanism(s) at work.
Yes, you would think so and would have been done and should have been done,
and we/I provided bees to look at in the field and even took many
nucs/equip
to lab for own working yard on premises right at the lab itself, that were
infact shown to other beekeepers during the 1990 AHPA meeting here in
Tucson.
I even went over and grafted for them queens that they put into own
incubator
at times because no one was there to do it so they would have queens to
work
with. I even videoed tapes at both lab and here for them to look at and
monitor (I now have videos back here on thelytoky/mites disected assoc with
foul
done back then in late 1980s and early 1990s). Donated hand made foundation
for a few years of small cell, and lab even sent some to friends in canada
also for usage. Helped with foundation for local indian tribes too with the
lab
for research, but somehow they just couldn't do......don't know why, for we
were doing it and it didn't seem hard to us.
Jim continued:
But the primary point here is that no one is going to "buy"
results from a study unless the colonies are moved to the
property of a research facility, and at least temporary
control is ceded to the facility staff. In other words,
we need to avoid any possible claim that someone cheated.
Reply:
Jim, to have close to 800 colonies going successfully now, and give to
those, that when I do see them looking at our bees, don't know what they are
looking at, is foolish now IMPOV. If they are that good and trained then let
them
do it. Regress the bees and just do it. Putting bees back on large comb,
restarts the mites overproducing again. Been there, done that. Don't need a
new
kid now from college with stamp on back to say "Hey beekeeper lady let's see
if
you are talking straight". That point in time is past now. Nothing moves
without contract like the first time....and in fact nothing moves for when
the
tests are done with the labs or what ever research facility. Then IT STILL
HAS
TO BE TESTED IN THE FIELD TO SEE IF IT WORKS COMMERCIALLY!!! This we are
now
already doing.....so why go backwards in time to restart what....for how
long playing games......playing games is over! Besides the Tucson lab
already
has shown us what can be done................right?
Jim Fischer contined back to me:
> Sit back and wait...........gee, it's been 8 years going on
> 9 in 2005 now coming! How long does one wait
Golly gosh, I dunno why I have to be the one think up a simple
study methodology and challenge the entire industry to prove or
disprove what has been talked about endlessly, my excuse is that
I've been busy doing other stuff. :) What's everyone else's excuse?
Reply:
Sorry, you are late on the scene for this happening. Have you read the
latest
"Introductionary Study for Breeding Varroa Resistant Bees" 2004 done by the
Swedish Beekeepijng Association? It's 193 pages long and final report is 27
pages adding to it.
Afraid the work is almost already done now but helped by the EU and not
USDA
unfortunately to say.Maybe Allen Dick in Canada can give you a copy to read
or Prof Frazier at Penn State. I think now from it those in Europe will make
more strides while those here will just keep muddering.
Jim replying to me again:
> But key here is gutta want to do it...
Well, I agree that we really oughta wanna.
I wanna. I got cash, I can twist arms, and I got time.
Reply:
Sorry you are so late in starting to want to. But the ball is already
rolling and USA is now several years behind those keeping abreast with are
overseas friends, with the exception of a few key beekeepers on the
Organics List I
have been talking with for some time now.
Jim Fischer replying again:
> ..................and mite drop counts
> to me is for researchers with time. Me I/we got work to
> do now with bees again and no more time for tinkering
> in basics when everything is under control.
So you don't even gather data from your own colonies, yet you moan
and groan that someone else won't come and do it for you?
Reply:
Didn't say that exactly I don't think. I have been told so many times I am
not a researcher that good counts have to be done, and our bees are doing
so
well, so that for so few counted it is detrimental workload to that
workload
really needing to be done, and also the fact that since I wasn't believed
in
the beginnning when I was counting and keeping track, that I see no reason
to
do it, for those that would want it verified to see if I did it right to
begin with, so let the ones so educated with stamp of approval do it. And
if they
won't come back.........................which is a for real scene having
happened.........then the counts aren't really
needed......................for
NO ONE in authority really wants to know the truth...............and it has
been said the truth is out there!!!!! But controlling the situation then
means
like with other agricultural control............the money chain
ends......and
I don't think that is wanted........no matter how bad our industry gets!!!!
now you tell me.........................How can this be?????
Jim replies:
Now I >>am<< confused!! :)
Reply:
So am I. It is said a long-term solution is needed, but no one said it
would
be willingly accepted and used if it envolved work.........such is the
pesticide treadmill of life and quick-fixes!!!!!!
Very best regards to you Jim:
Dee A. Lusby
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