> Mark raises the question (as do I) that would bees
> strong and not effected
> by mites, constant stress from moving ,viruses and
> other problems fall prey
> to a 1ppm dose of Imidacloprid. Most researchers
> familiar with bees and
> chemicals say 1ppb is simply to low a number.

Toxicity value, p.51 in the report I refered to (part
dedicated to chronic toxicity studies), my free
translation :
"Studies conducted in Avignon (M47) [the reference]
revealed that a the lowest [imidaclopride]
concentration in syrup (0,1 ppb), 50% mortality was
observed after 10 days, namely after a quantity of 12
pg ingested per bee. In summer studies in Bures-sur-
Yvette in 2000 (M33), the lowest tested dose leading
to a 20% mortality, is 32000pg/bee/10days in summer
(cumulativ quantity : 32 ng)."

This not even deals with effects on larvae which shoul
be more sensitive.


> We need to move away from LD50 type effects and look
> at *sublethal effects*
> which is a gray area in our current knowledge.

Indeed, I really agree. We were dealing only with
LD50. Imagine if we took the same approach about H&S
standards at work... Using a parabol, instead of
counting deads in the street, we now are able to
detect trouble when bees come home like junkies or
alcoolic in final phase or when they are brushing
their inside nose with their teethbrush...or when they
look for food in the washing machine instead of the
fridge because they are a bit confuse in their odor
memory. We progess, definitly. Forgot to mention than
those bio-essays are based on the dance language
hypothesis, otherwise nobody cares about the fact they
dance like bears on frames or like stars.

> > My guess (and only a guess) is the area of
sublethal
> effects will be the
> area the beekeepers will be talking about.
> Seperating the common knowledge
> and putting the focus directly on the chemical
> Imidacloprid.
> It seems beekeepers around the world are convinced
> Imidacloprid is the
> problem and taking action. If they are correct then
> the dying/dwindeling
> problem should stop but reports keep coming in of
> problems  in both  France
> and the U.S.

Considering the imida. lifespan in Environment and
last message about imida values in plants one year
after use on a land, I am afraid we will have to be
more patient. Moreover, as we agree, imida. is not the
only problem although it is certainly a cause of
morbidity. Then, after imida. removal from the market,
I guess one can only expect a decrease in losses (but
what %, I do not have a clue), probably not a straight
significant and sudden improvment.

Last comment, if people are interested in the French
case study, and to bounce on J. Fisher's article in
Beeculture, they may considere what some called the
double shots effect or the boomerang effect. When you
claim for lethal contamination in hives because of
nectar and pollen contamination by pesticides, how
will your spin doctors explain your honey - or your
pollen - is a pure natural healthy product...


Hervé
www.emelys.com






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