>>> ...many queens raised under this method will
>>> have been the oldest possible larvae that could be converted.
>>
>> I have often heard this said, but never seen *any* proof.
>
> I cannot give you the detailed references, but I based my assumption
> on...
<snip>
> By putting these things together, I conclude that queens produced by
> splitting...
<snip>
> I could be rude here and make jibes about the quality of commercially
> reared queens on the American continent...

And the deterioration and mis-matching that comes from caging, shipping,
banking, & introducing to distant colonies...

As we have already agreed, our experiences and observations are local to
each of us and have a bearing on our conclusions.  We are likely both quite
correct in our positions, particularly if we have different standards,
goals, and objectives.

Your points are good, but IMO, assumptions, and seductive reasoning based on
them, is no substitute for actual performance measurements in a real in-hive
situation.   (I meant to write 'deductive', but my finger missed by a cm.)
I've never measured, but when doing side-by-side walk-away splits, have
often seen the daughter splits (queenless for 21 days awaiting the new
queen) achieve 90% success in requeening themselves and quickly overtake,
then exceed the mother colony when the new queen gets going.  Hardly the
sign of an inferior queen.  Maybe earlier supercedure is likely with such
queens, but I have heard of studies showing well over 30% of introduced
queens routinely being replaced by the bees within months of purchase, so
what is the real alternative other than attempting to raise cells (which
many beekeepers -- even some 'pros' -- do not do well) or find some swarm
cells?

My observations are not scientific, that's for sure, but I've bought and
raised tens of thousands of queens and colonies, and although I do not doubt
your logic in well-controlled circumstances, where there are no other
factors limiting performance, I really doubt its relevance in the real
world, full of compromises, which most of us inhabit.

My point is that many beekeepers should not dismiss a very useful technique
on theoretical grounds, and therefore forego splitting or allow a hive to
run down for fear that a queen raised by the emergency impulse may be less
than ideal.  Most of us are living in a world that is less than ideal, and
many of us are not seeking perfection in our beekeeping.  We are always
making compromises between time, money, risk and results.

It seems to me that this particular compromise will prove not to be the
limiting factor for many of us, and many will be perfectly happy with
emergency queens.

allen

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
-- Visit www.honeybeeworld.com/BEE-L for rules, FAQ and  other info ---
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::