Bob wrote:
> Science (and the sugar lobby) say (for now)
> "there if no proof the use of
> refined sugar causes diabetes.

Keith wrote:
I have never heard anyone put it quite that way, and again, you are grossly
oversimplifying.  .

This is a no win debate. James posted the sugar lobby's side and I posted
the other side. Simple is best .

Bob wrote:
> AVERAGE American  ingests  100 pounds of
> refinned sugar per year.
>
> Average American use of honey is about one
> pound per year.

Keith wrote:
 Many, many reasons for this.  Lets not forget the biggie - it is
far far easier to produce a 10lb sac of sugar than a nice 10 lb jar of
honey.

Honey was the worlds sweetener till around 1700. In my opinion if Franz
Achard in 1801 had not discovered a process of refining sugar from beet
roots honey would still be the worlds sweetener.

Keith wrote:
So it is more available, and is used more, that simply does not prove that
sugar is inherently deficient in some way based on its level of refinement.

James posted accurate information on the make up of sugar which when looked
at seems to indicate little difference between honey and sugar as used by
the body . THERE ARE HOWEVER DIFERENCES!

However because of the  refining process many believe that the refining
process is the problem. Hard to prove but case studies of diabetes people
*seems* to point to refined sugar as a cause of diabetes.

The world reknown Dr. F.G. Banting ,the discover of insulin, because of
which millions around the world are alive today  thought refined white sugar
was going to be a big problem in the future.His prediction of record
diabetes in the future if the people of the world did not stop their love of
refined sugar has in my opinion came to pass.

DIABETES IS GROWING AT RECORD RATES IN THE U.S. TODAY.

 Not all these people are couch potatoes and diabetes runs in their family.
I went to a funeral of a diabetic friend last Saturday. Workaholic with no
history of diabetes in his family. He did love sweets and  tea heavy with
refined sugar.

Bob wrote;
> I would like to see the refined sugar and pure
> honey average use  reversed.

Keith wrote:
Sure, nice thought, but the market would never bear it.

Every journey begans with the first step.

Keith wrote:
Again, may I ask (and get this discuccion back on the origional track), what
changes are wrought by refinement that make sugar

As I posted above there is at present no way to prove  refined sugar is bad
for you just as there was no way for the people to prove tobacco smoking
caused cancer.

Looking at use habits  in case studies is all the information we have to go
on. Tobacco has never been proven to cause lung cancer unless I missed
something.

Both Keith and James have indicated that  the high use of sugar  is a cause
for diabetes.

Can you provide scientific information to support your claim which the sugar
lobby lawyers couldn't defend against?  I thought not!  I believe like Keith
and Jim that the high use of sugar is indeed a factor but not provable in a
court of law or to the FDA when sugar lobby lawyers are present.

Keith wrote:
Keith "not a member of the sugar lobby, just a little ol' zoo veterinarian"
Benson

As a vet why do you recommend not to give dogs and cats candy with refined
sugar?

Are our bodies so different that we can process refined sugar but not other
mammals?

Bob

Ps. Ready to move on to beekeeping subjects!