Dr. Max Watkins said:

> ...we have seen obvious decreases in the incidence of both European and
> American foulbrood in colonies treated with Apiguard over time.
> It's extremely difficult to quantify...

If it is extremely difficult to quantify, then exactly how is it "obvious"?


Let me explain my skeptical tone.
I want to use thymol as soon as it is legal to do so.

One of the hurdles that thymol faces in the US is that the EPA will not accept
existing European studies on thymol, and instead, requires studies done in the US.
Claims made by Europeans about thymol not backed by good data will not help
convince the EPA to change its stance, and accept European studies on thymol.
(And yes, I know that several people at the EPA read this list, because it has been
mentioned in conversation.)

Such unproven statements tend to create an aura of suspicion around a product.
This makes things more difficult for Steve Forest, who is trying to get thymol
approved with money from his own back pocket.

I >>WANT<< to see thymol registered in the US.  It is enough that thymol controls
mites, even with the temperature/humidity limitations on its effectiveness noted by Bob.
It need not do (or be claimed to do) anything else.

Not to be pedantic, but thymol does not have to be hyped as any sort of "solution"
to AFB, EFB, bad breath, yellow waxy build-up on furniture, male pattern baldness,
acid reflux disease, sleeplessness, or the heartbreak of psoriasis.  It just has to be less
toxic than coumaphos, less difficult to handle/package than the various acids, and
something that I can alternate with Apistan.  Since it meets these mission-critical
requirements, there is no need to make additional claims without first having statistically
significant results from well-designed studies.

> ...we've had many independent responses from beekeepers both professional and hobbyists
> here in the UK, in France, Italy and in North Africa in particular who have used Apiguard over
> two or three seasons. They say the bees are really healthy and vigorous.

So do a controlled study!  Please don't fall into the trap of allowing thymol to be tarred with
the same brush as "essential oils" and other "magic bullet" approaches that have been
touted without solid evidence.

> Thymol is a natural bacteriocide, fungicide...

> Apiguard is NOT a treatment for chalkbrood or for either European or
> American Foulbrood

If it is a "bactericide", but it is not a treatment for chalkbrood, EFB, or AFB,
then what sort of bacteria is it effective against?  (Again, excuse the aggressive
skepticism, but why make a statement, and then add a disclaimer that directly
contradicts the statement?)

Sorry to be such a hardnose, but hype is not required to get beekeepers to use thymol.
Hype only hurts the perception of what is otherwise a fine product.

On a purely scientific level, it should be made clear that colonies with lower mite levels
are known to be better able to resist other diseases, such as AFB, EFB, and chalkbrood.
Strong colonies resist disease better than ones weakened by mites. So, of course Apiguard
users are going to report lower disease rates.


        jim fischer (who has 2 Ph.D.s, and is therefore a "walking paradox")

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