Hello Clay & All,
From reading your post I believe you have already made up your mind. I wish
you success!  I have always had a open mind to Dee Lusby's methods.  I will
present the other side of the discussion for others reading Bee-L.  I will
be around the computer today as doing office work and filling honey drums.
Then  replies will come slower .

> You have wax. You could mill your own foundation and save $$$$ in the
>long  run. Yes you will have to work a bit harder, BUT it is your own
>product and  you can cull combs as needed saving much money.

I can only speak for my own operation. Others may be in a position to try
Lusby's methods and I encourage others to at least try a form of IPM or non
chemical methods. I have tried many methods (and lost many hives) seeing for
myself.
I have allready culled my old combs when I went to plastic. I prefer the
plastic (when drawn out) to wax foundation. Also I fully expect to see the
small hive beetle in our area one of these days and the plastic cuts the SHB
loses. As for working *harder*  I allready get up a 4 am and work till dark
(9to 10 pm).

>or what one pays out in  queens in a season in a commercial operation
>should easily purchase a mill.

Without a doubt!  Dee says her queens are only one third of her success with
varroa. In my opinion you will always need queens even with small cell. Also
Dee has built a building, tanks etc. to produce enough foundation for her
outfit. Processing wax can be dangerous. I read about her fire in the bee
magazines. I don't know the cause but I have seen wax burn. The fire wall I
built was the only thing which kept my supers from going *up in smoke* when
I had my fire in 1995.

> By using no chemicals one save even more money.

Very true but a bigger point is what will the industry do when varroa
becomes resistant to all *legal* chemicals. $10,000 is the first time fine
for illegal use. If illegal chemicals start turning up in honey the USDA
WILL start looking. What if coumaphos was not given a section 18 next year?

>Do you truly believe  breeding alone will save the industry?

If varroa can not reproduce (as advertised) on those SMR bees?  yes!

 If 100% resistant queens can't be  produced consistently year after year it
won't happen.

In my opinion formic acid gel has proven to be around 50% effective when
used exactly right and the weather cooperates. If SMR has a control anywhere
over 50% then you are saving the costs chemicals. As I said above buying
queens is always going to be a cost factor in beekeeping regardless of the
control. I believe most queen breeders will offer the SMR queens IF they
prove effective. If they get the *bugs* worked out of the Russian queens
they might be popular with queen breeders. I was told Danny Weaver is going
to offer SMR *open Mated* queens next year.

What happens when  supercedure occurs and natural mating occur with local
stock?  Loss of  resistance??? One can't fight nature! It has a mind of its
own and will not  cooperate.

You should go to the Baton Rouge web site I posted the other day and read
carefully about SMR.  Harbo believes when the SMR trait is introduced
through open mating the whole apiary will pick up the SMR gene.  I
personally am going to try and keep my lines pure SMR. At least until I am
sure open mating will not dilute the SMR gene.  By raising our own queens
and using remote mating yards  with SMR drones we believe the line can be
kept reasonably pure.   Our problem is we still always seem to have to buy
some queens. I believe I will order from Danny Weaver as he sees the SMR
benefit and was one of the first to get on board.

< Man does not have the ability to keep that kind of control. You  as the
>beekeeper can control cell size with in a reasonable degree. But
> mating of bees  for this type of resistance to last forever is pretty much
> impossible. Knowing this it makes the Lusby's methods much more
>reasonable  of an option.(it is working even before these specially breed
>queens)

SMR is not new. It was observed many years ago. Harbo was the first to look
closely at SMR I am aware of.  If not I stand to be corrected.

>  hoping you would reconsider using 4.9.

I hope you are successful but I can not see myself switching.  Keep the list
posted on your success (or failure) and I WILL do the same with the SMR
queens (success or failure). Enjoyed your post!

Bob