well,
 finally i will respond the last few major cases of hot vs cold. i have used
both personally and it helps if tandem nursing put the older one on to
nurse.
for the last real major cases of engorgement i have done a few things before
pumping or latching. first i gave the mom 1 cup of mild sage tea- yes i
know, i know it dries. but it works great to eas swelling and relax mom-
they say it tastes bad even with the added sugar- but it works. secondly i
gently massage the breasts with udder cream- at the farm supply brand is
bova cream - NOT  bag-balm its two different thing- laced with a hint of
lavender and patchouli oils ( i make it myself) . the cream is warmed in the
hands prior to massage then place the cool cabbage leaf over one and pump
the other if really bad put cabbage on borth for about 5 minutes or so then
remassage- sans nipples - for that i apply a little olive oil.
Have had no trouble with the milk flow then.  yes have tried water bath etc.
it really depends on the mother. the massage cream can be used on the
shoulders or as  labor massage for a big belly.

I use only 1 cup of sage tea, sometimes make moms split the 6 ounces (180
mls)  into two 3 three ounce (90ml) doses; usually,  she keeps feeding then
pumping. most of the time it is resolved in a  couple of sessions. for most
it takes only one session to get the milk moving. Yes, they wait to last
minute to call after hours of misery and their nerves are frayed; so i
rather split it into two sessions.

well this may change the perspective of the discussion.
happy new year to all.

mechell turner, M. Ed. IBCLC, CCE, student nurse

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Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 7:38 PM
Subject: LACTNET Digest - 29 Dec 1998 - Special issue