Very Long Post

Linda Folden Palmer and I have had an interesting email conversation about
breastfeeding with implanted radiation seeds, radioisotopes, and now
theories about breast cancer in response to my post about radiation in
breastmilk and she has given me permission to forward it to the list.  What
a diverse group of women (and men) there are on Lactnet with a diverse group
of husbands who share our interest in lactation.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: "Linda Anderegg" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: Radiation in breastmilk


> LInda, it's quite OK to forward anything of mine to the list. Go ahead &
> edit to make it appropriate/understandable if needed. HOWEVER, the first
> two paragraphs below are good stuff -- but they're not from me. I'll have
> more time for this this evening. Back to my breastcancer research. We're
> working on filtering out the receptors in the blood that block the body's
> own powerful immune response -- then the body attacks the cancer. No
drugs.
> No radiation. Lots of nutritional support. Our problem now is actually
that
> the tumors destruct too quickly, leaving the body in septic shock... Got
to
> slow it down. Best, linda
>
> Quoting Linda Anderegg <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> > Linda,
> > May I have your permission to forward your comments to Lactnet?  I
didn't
> > realize the discussion would get so involved and I would like to share
> > with the list because others have been responding too.  Here are the
> > answers to your questions:
> > --In regards to holding the baby for breastfeeding with implanted
> > radiation, when there is a person on another floor in the hospital
> > undergoing this type of therapy, we are not allowed to admit any
patients
> > in the rooms directly above and below his room (and maybe in the room
> > next to his as well?).  Nurses are only allowed to have contact for a
> > restricted number of minutes per 24 hours.  She would not be permitted
to
> > hold or nurse her baby.  But you're saying that there is no reason why
> > she couldn't pump and immediately have someone else feed her milk to her
> > baby.
> > --My breast surgeon at Loyola University is doing ductal lavage for
> > diagnosis only and she is conducting research now but I'm not sure what
> > the focus of her research is.  I would assume that no radioisotopes are
> > used.  The literature says that normal saline is used to wash out the
> > cells.  I will try to get more info from her if she has time at our next
> > visit.
> > --I think what your husband is saying about the Technetium is that she
> > shouldn't save that milk to feed because it has such a long half life.
I
> > believe the guidelines from NRC say to wait 24-48 hours before resuming
> > breastfeeding.  If that's what the tech tells the mom, I tell her Tom
> > Hale's recommendation is 5 half lives so 30 hours should be safe.  Ann
> > Perry posted that it's okay, according to her hospital's Safety Officer,
> > to save that milk to use later, probably after 5 half lives after each
> > specimen was pumped.  Then where should she store that milk if she's in
> > the hospital?  Would it contaminate the other mothers' milk in the
fridge
> > for the period of time when it is still radioactive?
> >
> > Here are my other questions about breastfeeding and breast cancer:
> > --If a woman has breast cancer while lactating, and she's shedding those
> > cells into her milk through the ducts, would the macrophages in her milk
> > engulf and destroy them before they're passed to the baby?
> > --If that were true, would that have anything to do with why
> > breastfeeding decreases a woman's risk for breast cancer, the fact that
> > lactation would cause the cancer cells to be excreted rather than left
in
> > the breast to multiply?
> > --Is there some factor in breastmilk that binds to the cancer cells to
> > make them inactive?
> > --Does degree of exclusivity affect breast cancer risk?  It would make
> > sense but has not been researched that I know of.
> > --Why do some women with a high risk for breast cancer get it even
though
> > they have breastfed for extended periods and some don't?
> > --Is it possible that a baby is exposed to breast cancer via the
shedding
> > during breastfeeding and that makes the baby more resistant to getting
it
> > herself later in life?
> >
> > I'm sure I will think of a lot more questions but am too tired right
now.
> >  If it's okay with you to share this with the list then feel free to
> > forward it.
> >
> > Linda A.
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Linda Palmer
> >   To: Linda Anderegg
> >   Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 10:25 PM
> >   Subject: Re: Radiation in breastmilk
> >
> >
> >
> >     ----- Original Message -----
> >     From: Linda Anderegg
> >     To: [log in to unmask]
> >     Cc: Anderegg, Linda Sue
> >     Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 10:12 PM
> >     Subject: Radiation in breastmilk
> >
> >
> >     Dear Linda,
> >     Thank you for responding to my question on the list.  Not being a
> > nuclear physicist myself (but having had breast cancer), I'm not sure I
> > understand your husband's explanation.  I don't understand how there
> > could be radioisotopes in the body that wouldn't travel to the breast,
> > unless he's talking about the radioactive seeds that are sometimes
placed
> > for concentrated exposure to certain parts of the body and then removed
> > later.  YES, HE SAYS THIS STAYS VERY LOCAL AND WOULD NOT REMAIN IN
> > BREASTMILK. RADIATION THERAPY WOULDN'T REMAIN EITHER. IF THE MOM HAS THE
> > SEED DIRECTLY IN/NEAR HER BREAST, THEN THE RADIATION IS THERE.
> >
> >     Shouldn't she not hold her baby to directly breastfeed then, whether
> > her milk were safe or not?  NOW THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THOUGHT, I'D HOLD
> > BABY ON THE OTHER SIDE AND SORT OF PULL HIM AWAY IN A NEUROTIC SORT OF
> > WAY I GUESS IF IT WERE ME.
> >
> >     I assume he's saying that if she is having brachiotherapy (I think
> > that's what it's called) of the cancerous breast she should not
> > breastfeed because she would be shedding the isotope into her milk along
> > with cancer cells.
> >
> >     YES. THE RADIOACTIVITY SHOULD DISSIPATE, AS RECOMMENDED BY ONE
> > RESPONDER ON LACTNET. NO ONE APPARENTLY HAS HAD ANY QUESTION ABOUT
> > PASSING ON CANCEROUS CELLS. THEY ARE IN THE DUCTS. ONE MAY THINK THAT
> > THEY'D BE "DIGESTED," HOWEVER MOM'S MILK IS DESIGNED TO ALLOW LARGE
CELLS
> > THROUGH, LIKE WHITE BLOOD CELLS -- THEY CAN PASS RIGHT THROUGH THE
> > INTESTINAL WALL AND INTO THE BLOOD STREATM. BABY DOES NOT HAVE THE SAME
> > TUMOR NECRSOSIS FACTOR/CYTOKINE MAKE-UP AS AN ADULT. THEY ARE NOT
> > EXPECTED TO HAVE CANCER YET. THEY HAVE MUCH GROWTH FACTOR GOING ON --
> > THAT ENCOURAGES CANCEROUS GROWTH. STILL, ONE WOULD ASSUME THAT IT WOULD
> > HAVE BEEN NOTICED BY NOW IF A CHILD DEVELOPED SOME CANCER WITHIN YEARS
OF
> > BREASTFEEDING ON A CANCEROUS BREAST?? I'M SURE NOT THE ONE TO CONSULT ON
> > THAT -- IT IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT THOUGH.
> >
> >     What is the ductal secretion they're using now for breast cancer
> > diagnosis?  HERE'S ONE ARTICLE ON IT: Newman LA. Ductal lavage: what we
> > know and what we don't.
> >     Oncology (Huntingt). 2004 Feb;18(2):179-85; discussion 185-6, 189,
> > 192. Review. THEY'RE JUST LAVAGING THE DUCTS AND LOOKING FOR ATYPICAL
> > CELLS IN WHAT THEY GET.
> >
> >     My own breast surgeon does ductal lavage FOR DIAGNOSIS OR SOME
> > TREATMENT??
> >
> >     and I thought that was cutting edge. I don't believe she uses
> > radioisotopes in the process but I'll ask her at my next visit in July
> > and let you know if you're interested.
> >
> >     I understand why there wouldn't be any radiation in her breastmilk
if
> > she were receiving breast radiation therapy.  As far as I know,
> > breastfeeding is contraindicated if a premenopausal woman develops
breast
> > cancer while pregnant or nursing because her cancer is usually more
> > aggressive and she needs to be treated quickly, not because she is
> > shedding cancer cells into her ducts.  This opens up a whole new line of
> > questions that I have about breastfeeding and breast cancer, but I won't
> > bother you with that.  WELL, I AM INTERESTED, BECAUSE I'M A RESEARCH
> > ASSOCIATE FOR A COMPANY WORKING ON CYTOKINE THERAPIES FOR BREAST AND
> > PROSTATE CANCERS.
> >
> >     That's another good one for the list. INTRODUCE IT IF YOU LIKE &
I'LL
> > CHIME IN WITH PONDERANCES.
> >
> >     What I'm trying to find out is in regards to women who have had
> > radioisotopes for diagnostic scans, such as technetium. HUBBY SAYS
COBALT
> > IS FINE, TECHNETIUM IS BAD NEWS. HE SAYS HE'S PERSONALLY WAIT LONGER
THAN
> > 30 HOURS AND NOT USE THE MILK FROM DURING THAT TIME -- IT'S TAINTED. OF
> > COURSE, HE DOESN'T REALLY KNOW THE DOSES & SUCH, IT'S JUST HIS
> > IMPRESSION. HOPEFULLY MEDICINE HAS DONE SOME RESEARCH ON THIS -- WE TEND
> > TO IGNORE THEM WHENEVER THEY SAY NOT TO BREASTFEED BECAUSE THEY'LL TELL
> > YOU NOT TO BF IF YOU'RE COUGHING.
> >
> >     Those are the moms that I have to counsel.  We tell the mom to wait
5
> > half-lives (about 30 hours) before resuming breastfeeding.  In the
> > meantime she is pumping and discarding her milk.  Is it okay to save
that
> > milk to feed to her baby later instead of discarding it?  And is there
> > any problem with her rinsing that milk down the sink if it's
radioactive?
> > OH MY... WELL, HER PEE GOES DOWN THE TOILET...
> >
> >     Would it have any affect on the other foods in her fridge if she
kept
> > it there until the radiation dissipated? IT WOULD DISSIPATE THE SAME
FROM
> > ALL (OH, SO DON'T EAT ANYTHING FROM THE FRIDGE UNTIL...) OK, WELL HE
SAYS
> > THE OTHER FOOD IS OK, NOW AS FOR MUTATIONS? WELL, THAT'S NOT A BIG
> > PROBLEM, PER OUR GOVERNMENT WHO HAD APPROVED RADIATION OF OUR MEATS AND
> > VEGETABLES.
> >
> >     (HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION:) WHAT OTHER KINDS OF CHEMICALS ARE BEING
USED
> > TO CARRY THE RADIOACTIVE MATERIAL?? I'D PERSONALLY BE AFRAID TO USE THAT
> > MILK. MY HUBBY SAYS THAT WHILE TECHNITIUM IS FILTERED FROM HER BODY BY
> > THE KIDNEYS (AND INTO OUR WATER SYSTEM), ITS HALF-LIFE IS LIKE 7
YEARS!!!
> > AND THE MOM SHOULDN'T EVEN BE NEAR ANYONE FOR SOME TIME UNTIL SHE'S PEED
> > A LOT OF IT OUT -- (I GUESS LIKE A COUPLE DAYS) THAT SHE'D SET-OFF
> > RADIATION DETECTORS.
> >
> >     THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF THERAPIES WITH DIFFERENT KINDS
> > OF RADIOISOTOPES DELIVERED IN DIFFERENT METHODS, SOME ARE RATHER BENIGN
> > AND SOME OF THESE PEOPLE ARE REALLY "HOT" RADIOACTIVELY SPEAKING, AND
> > HUBBY SAYS HE PERSONALLY WOULD NOT WANT TO BE NEAR SOME OF THESE PEOPLE
> > FOR THE FIRST FEW DAYS.
> >
> >      I hope your husband won't mind answering those questions.  I
suspect
> > that nuclear physicists, just like lactation consultants, relish having
> > people ask questions so they can edify them.
> >     You can respond to me personally or to the list.  I would appreciate
> > your husband's insight.  Thanks in advance,
> >
> >     OF COURSE ONE WOULD HOPE THAT THE MOM COULD HAVE SOME EARLIER MILK
> > SAVED-UP OR CAN GET SOME FROM A FRIEND SO AS NOT TO HAVE TO INTRODUCE
> > ARTIFICIAL MILK INTO HER BABY'S SYSTEM. I ALSO HAD A COUSIN WHO USED A
> > RUBBER NIPPLE COVER (BREAST SHIELD?) OVER HER NIPPLE TO ALLOW HER BABY
TO
> > COMFORT NURSE AT HER BREAST WHEN SHE COULDN'T HAVE MOM'S MILK. (SHE PUT
> > LITTLE DROPS OF A FRIEND'S MILK THERE, BUT ALSO GAVE A BM BOTTLE.) SHE
> > ACTUALLY ENDED UP WITH HER MILK DRYING UP AND HER DAUGHTER COMFORT
NURSED
> > (WITHOUT THE SHIELD) UNTIL SHE WENT TO KINDERGARTEN. BUT THAT'S ANOTHER
> > STORY.
> >
> >     WHO HAD THE INITIAL QUESTION ON LACTNET -- WAS IT YOU???
> >
> >     BEST, LINDA PALMER
>
>
>
>

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