Hello Brian & All,
>
> Yuck!. people are and will be
> asking is that honey from china or a migratory operation?


The hard fact is the number of commercial beekeepers has dropped each year 
since WW2 in the U.S. half as many hives now as then. 70% of U.S. honey sold 
in stores is imported. Why? Because the U.S. beekeeping industry has not 
been able to supply the demand even if it wanted to.

 Lumping U.S. migratory honey in with honey from China  does not seem right. 
We sell our honey "really raw" in the drum (curently for around 95cents a 
pound). All the large packers are testing each shipment. None of the small 
local beekeepers get their honey tested. Which is really safer.

In another forum a small beekeeper said he fills his "really raw" jars right 
off the extractor and sells for around $8 a pound. Less effort than all the 
beekeepers I know but charging eight times the price. Some crystallizes so 
hard in the jar the buyer has trouble getting out of the container.  Is not 
what he is doing all about the money.  800% mark up over others "really raw" 
honey.

no thanks I'll get the non-industrial,
> more sustainable version from a local beekeeper.

Like I said you will get your price and sell all you produce in your area if 
you are willling to direct market your crop. When you get larger then those 
prices either reduce or like a friend which always wants higher than the 
going priceyou  have a whole warehouse full of drums of honey. Honey is a 
comodity like sugar, corn, soybeans and other crops. I have got a shed full 
of 55 gallon drums under CCC USDA honey loan. All the honey is "really raw" 
and unfiltered.  When honey was on the USDA-ARS watch list my honey was 
tested and was free of contamination of any kind. How can you say your honey 
is better than mine.?


> IMO the answers are obvious. stop raising pigs in an inhumane way crammed 
> into feedlots. stop
> planting massive monoculture crops which require pollination services that 
> do not exist .

Pollinating almonds is not a priority for me. However when the almond 
pollination fees rise my interest increases.  I am not a hobby beekeeper and 
need cash flow. Supply and demand is the main reason fees are up. Almond 
growers know they need to try and atract new beekeepers to bring bees to 
California.  The California raisen growers used to laugh at the almond 
industry until imported raisens stole the market. Now the raisen growers are 
bull dozing grapes and planting almonds to survive. Ten of thousands of 
acres of perfectly good raisen grapes were rotting on the vines once when I 
was in California because it cost more to harvest than the grapes sold for. 
desperate to stay in farming those growers planted almonds.

Michael Pollan might understand things better if he spoke with an informed 
beekeeper. The raisen grape industry on the ropes is the number ONE reason 
for many new plantings of almonds.

Everyday in California we would go to the restuarant for breakfast and visit 
with other beekeepers and growers ( almond,fruit, raisen and row crops) . My 
information comes first hand from those people. I am not sure exactly where 
Michael pollan gets his information.


> problem is Bob some folks like you don't like the answers. you seem more 
> interested in importing
> bees then fixing the problems we created as an industry. its all about the 
> money and the short
> term isn't it?

Whats wrong with the industry. Some beekeepers are having problems and 
others are not. Nothing new! researchers are after funding (which is not 
new!). The problem this year is for the most part this problem named CCD has 
not raised its ugly head. I have behind the scenes been involved with 
congress for years. sooner or later a congressman is going to ask the tough 
question:

How many hives are crashing RIGHT NOW! I don't care about how many crashed 
last year! Getting funding without a provable crisus is problematic. Many 
reports/articles try to tie the problem to this summer /fall but not so! 
Even newspaper articles in our area this fall give the impression the 
problem is crisus now.
>

The year before almond pollination prices started their climb we took three 
semi loads to almonds ( not a huge amount) and each hive brought $45. Three 
large commercial beekeepers in our area had went under the year before. 
Almonds has been the life line to many operations. Those operations gone 
bankrupt were non migratory. They could not compete with foreign honey in 
their stores. Going migratory has been what has saved many an operation. Don 
S. ( N. Dakota) was one of the last of the large operations to go migratory. 
he told us at meetings that he could survive the foreign honey problem but 
found trying to survive on honey sales alone was not working.


this is not a national crisis to get those trees pollinated for the
> investors to cash their nuts in.

True!

However almonds has saved a dying California beekeeping industry. I almost 
felt sorry for California beeks on one of my first trips to almonds. Moving 
hives with swing loaders (Ulee jackson style) and old equipment trying to 
fall apart. Many resented us because of the new trucks etc.  , excellent 
boxes and swingers. Now through current almond fees those guys have got 
their equipment in good boxes and many like gene brandi have moved to 
swingers and hives on pallets. Almond pollination has been a brite spot in 
beekeeping over the last five years. Sure randy oliver and myself have tried 
to make out of state beekeepers aware of the pitfalls and hidden risks but 
once armed with correct information then money can be made.

 IMO the chaos created by the mass movement of bees each year is
> creating a national crisis and negatively affecting many, many beeks.

Is CCD really a national crisis? Was it ever? How exactly has the movement 
to almonds effected your operation Brian?

The folks from the Science article have got their CCD hypothesis on the 
ground trying to give CPR to the problem.

The new angle is that there are two strains of IAPV and neither are like the 
Israel strain. Who really cares? Show us IAPV is a problem and then you get 
our attention> Those peoples hypothesis is not going to get many beekeepers 
attention unless the CCD issue is happening on even half the scale as last 
year. Which is is not!

Many of the points Marla makes are not causing problems this year. To my 
amazement large operations with fluvalinate and coumaphos contaminated comb 
have got the best bees in years. Beekeepers I have been preaching to about 
changing all their comb (like I did) have got hives boiling with bees which 
in some cases look better than mine.
I can't explain it!

Maybe "Disappearing disease' was a better name than colony collapse 
disorder" as it seems this year CCD has disappeared. Those beekeepers on 
here from another forum know I have been asking all beekeepers to contact me 
if having problems. I have spoke with around 10 beekeepers which have 
attended their state meetings and few if any problems. despite what those 
seeking funds might say those with CCD issues were very vocal last fall at 
meetings!

bob

"has been known to pimp a few hives of bees"

Ps. If beekeepers on the list hear of any confirmed CCD problems please 
email me with contact information. 


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

******************************************************
* Full guidelines for BEE-L posting are at:          *
* http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/guidelines.htm  *
******************************************************