Doug
 
I didn't take your comments as negative.
 
I'm from a sharecropping  background, so I fully understand  that common sense isn't assured by taking courses, nor that there aren't other ways of learning and gaining experience.
 
One of my major advisors went to his grave apologizing for only having a Master Degree, never finishing a Ph.D.   Yet he put in more than 40 years of practical experience, published papers, was the State Entomologist, and his syllabus for his own ecology classes that he taught was 'stolen' by one of the big names in ecology text books, and never credited  - something he never forgave.
 
So yes, he had a college degree - but in his mind, it wasn't good enough.
 
I don't view my  own degrees as anything more than a union card - it proves I put  in the time and effort, and passed.  Fairly or not, that opens doors to apply for grants, get specific types of jobs.
 
We don't expect our ONLINE students to become overnight experts.  Charles commented that he had more experience in some areas than we the instructors, and I know that's true.  Still, our collective experience in bee research is considerable  - I've got 40+ years, Phil has 20, and Scott has 16.  I've a Ph.D., Phil a B.S., Scott a B.S., nearly a Masters, and hopes  to complete a Ph.D.  So we're not all fudds.  But we're not new to bees either.  That's one of the reasons we're working to include experts for specific topics, especially in the Journeyman  and Masters.
 
What we do want to do is see that they're not using internet gurus of unknown background, experience, and expertise as their main source of information.  And we know that they've been exposed to the basics in a way that is more than simply reading books and taking tests.
 
What we gain is that we the instructors, through the Discussion Forums, learn as much from the students as they do from us.  Even the most naïve novice sometimes introduces something that we haven't heard about or haven't really considered. And, if there's one thing I never want to hear, that  a student  takes everything that we say as gospel - Charles included, although I have no fear of that happening.  We have our  own biases, shortcomings, tunnel vision.  The goal is to keep the class focused on informed discussions  and credible information, and to have the tools and practice to do so.  
 
Przemek's history essay needs to be published, I'm talking to Kim.  So should several others.  An unexpected benefit of the class is that we are inadvertently collecting a data base of information about floral resources all  across the US and in some other countries, beekeeping practices, bee laws and regulations.  I hope to find some way of getting that information compiled and published in some form.  
 
We do have a problem, but its a good one.  We build each of these courses from scratch, using the largesse of the Dean who provides the media students who film, edit, animate, illustrate.   We started the Masters course development in January.  We filmed this summer.  We're just now finishing the course, porting it to Moodle. 
The problem is that our students are getting impatient for the Masters.  We get emails  and phone calls, and corned at meetings.  When's the Masters?  Don't forget to tell me when registration is open.
 
So, as of the beginning of this week, here's the upcoming  schedule for the next Apprentice (open to anyone, regardless of experience) and the Masters (open only  to those who have passed our Journeyman course.  The message is from Holly  Kulish, are course coordinator at SELL (School of Extended and Lifelong Learning, Univ of Montana, Missoula):
 
Below are the dates we discussed today.

Apprentice: February 1-March 11  - Registration is open now at www.umt.edu/bee

Master: March 28-May 20

I'd like to announce the Master course dates, but delay the opening of Master course registration until early-mid January.  That allows us a few weeks to wrap up the syllabus, get credit approval, etc. so students can read exactly what they are registering for.
 
We went from - you CHARGE FOR COURSES ! when we first introduced the Apprentice Course, to it's worth every penny, when's the next one?  Thanks to all who have taken our courses and have helped spread the word. 
 
FYI, to get into the  Journeyman, we expect the student to have taken our Apprentice and get a B or better, then have at least one year of hands on experience successfully keeping bees alive, before taking the Journeyman.   On a case by case basis, I can interview applicants who have taken an beekeeping course elsewhere or has sufficient  experience to take the Journeyman, but the student has to convince me the she/he have the background necessary to be successful in the Journeyman course.  With the Masters, I'm going to say, you  have to have passed our Journeyman course.
 
There's a problem if people skip any  of our courses, they can't assume that they know what we expect of them for the course that they want enter, and we find ourselves being questioned about issues that are covered in the preceding course(s).  Or, the student flounders.  The most common problem here is at the Journeyman level, a few of the natural, top bar,  warre hive, don't treat, feed the bees until they swarm to replenish pollinator populations, or don't feed at all, even if the bees are starving manage, and the Flow Hive group manage to slip in because they  were able to pass the Apprentice level or ignored the pre-requisites (we're working to tighten registration, make sure we're clearer in our course description).  They then complain that we don't provide  guidance for advanced management following their chosen approach to beekeeping.  I don't care if they want to experiment, just as long as they don't become part of the mite and resistant foul brood problem, but I'm not convinced that advanced alternative beekeeping isn't an oxymoron. 
 
And Doug, I have to confess - the Flow Hive really pissed me off.  We've some technologies that we think will greatly benefit the beekeeping industry and growers - our acoustic scanners for pests and diseases, our work using IR imaging to facilitate day to  day bee management and queen rearing, and even our  exotic lasers (LIDAR) that can map where pollinators go, how they got there.  Because we are not a Land Grant university, we don't have access to Extension Funds.  
 
I'm getting older and don't have than much more time to get some of these out the door and into the hands of beekeepers.  Commercialization will take money, and although I'm reasonably good at finding research and small business research funds, none of these funds can be used for commercialization.  So, the fact that the Flow Hive netted millions for an idea that has been tried and discarded before and that may encourage beehavers, I felt a mixture of disappointment, concern, and probably some jealousy.  Even a fraction of those millions would get our scanners out the door and into your hands, and the IR reworked and calibrated for more than simple imaging of dead outs versus weak colonies versus strong colonies.  In the  past three years, the technology has opened up, costs are down, battery draw down, and capabilities going upward.  We've a stable of proven technologies in the wings, just need to get them into the market.   
 
So, I still  don't like the Flow Hive, what it promises to do, the type of beekeeping I fear it will promote, but I have to give them credit for a superb promotional campaign.
 
 
 
 





             ***********************************************
The BEE-L mailing list is powered by L-Soft's renowned
LISTSERV(R) list management software.  For more information, go to:
http://www.lsoft.com/LISTSERV-powered.html