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Subject:
From:
Rip Bechmann <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:01:44 -0400
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I was going to reply off-line but decided to risk the "moderator" and
submit it to the general list.  I hope I don't win the "05 light bulb"
award for excessive quotes.
>>>Our bees have less then 1-2% foul brood, meaning this year
I found maybe two hives ........of about 900 colonies +/-.<<<
I think you might want to check your math, I get .111% -.222% with from 1
- 2 hives out of 900 or 9 - 18 hives at 1 - 2%.  Darn decimal points!
Where are the moderators when you need one?  They must all be out
changing light bulbs with Allen, he appears to advocate a rather large
crew for that job.

>>>changing the size ...to a natural sizing ....change the environment
.... relative to ... health and breeding.<<<
How does this "change the environment"?  Certainly you don't mean outside
the hive, so just what is different about the inside aside from
proportions?

>>>reducing the size of the bees .... you regain ...forage
...lost .... going bigger,<<<
Such as?  Just what plants can be foraged by your "natural sized" Apis
mellifera that can't or won't be accessed by "big" Apis mellifera?
>>>and that here means<<<
Is this a typo or do you mean you are referring to plants found only in
your immediate area and if so, how does this impact on the applicability
of your claims outside your immediate area?

>>>more smaller plants that are medicinal.<<<
I was unaware that size had any bearing on the potential for medicinal
properties in a plant species.  Are you referring to plants in a given
species being smaller in your area or that plants, in general, are
smaller?
>>>This then means if you are what you eat:.....better health.<<<
It could but it also could just as easily be used to argue for poor
health based on the same logic.  Take the "junk food - obesity" debate.
We know Apis mellifera collects pollen which isn't nutritionally complete
for them.  The classic case here about is dandelion, they collect it by
the ton, but research has shown that a colony limited to only dandelion
pollen will collapse.
>>>...medicinal plants and taking the resin ....<<<
Do you have any data to prove that the resin off "medicinal plants" is
anymore effective than other plant resins?
>>>as so plant can bloom except a bee work it first to do this,<<<
I am unaware of any plants that require bees, Apis or other wise, to
"remove resin in order to bloom".   Can you provide me with a reference,
preferably in a peer reviewed, juried journal?
>>>then the resin ...the smaller plants ...again used .... propolis, <<<
We are back to square one.  Do you have any data to support your
Hypothesis that smaller Apis mellifera work smaller plants that big Apis
mellifera cannot access?
>>>...consistency ...<<<
I don't think you will find anyone who will disagree with your premise
that different plant resins have a distinctive consistency.
>>>...viable for health ...<<<
Do you have any evidence for one resin being "more viable for health
purposes" than any other?
>>>...propolis got weaker...<<<
Can you give me a reference that the propolis in the hive of "bigger
bees" is any weaker than the propolis in the hives of "small bees"?  I am
assuming that this conversation is confined to Apis mellifera.  What is
the basis for your use of the term "weaker"?  What parameters are you
talking about when you use the word "weaker"?   If asked, I would have to
say the consistency of propolis is determined by the ambient temperature
and the amount of wax incorporated with the plant resins, followed a very
distant third by any inherent resin characteristics .
>>>...bees shellac the brood cells ....<<<
Here at last we have something we can agree upon, that said there is
still a problem.  Yes propolis has very active antibacterial properties
and prevents bacteria from attacking the exterior of the larva, but AFB
isn't an exterior problem.  I think it is safe to say that the life cycle
of AFB is known to a "fare-thee-well" and at no point does the active,
vegetative stage of the disease come in contact with the cell wall, with
or without the propolis "shellac".  The spores are fed to the larva by
the nurse bees, either directly or in the brood food deposited on the
cell bottom.   They are spores until consumed by the larva.  They "hatch"
in the larval gut, complete their entire development cycle there.  They
are effectively spores when the larva defecates for the one and only time
just before pupation.  If the larva dies, the spores formed are encased
in the larval skin and it drys down with time to form a scale.  If
propolis had any effect on AFB spores, AFB would be almost a none issue.
Do you have any evidence that propolis kills AFB spores?

>>>should answer your question<<<

Not really, unfortunately it has raised a few more.  I'm convinced you
have something going on in the vicinity of Moyza, but I don't think your
explanation has much, if anything, to do with your results.  Do you have
any control hives, i.e. worked and treated the same in the same area but
on "big" foundation?  Is the AFB rate in these hives any more, less or
about equal to your other hives?   Failing that, what about "big bee"
beekeeping neighbors within your zone of operation?  What is their AFB
rate and/or do they treat prophylactically?
Rip

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