From: "Zachary Huang" <[log in to unmask]>

> I feel your pain (at the prospect of losing your livelihood) and
sympathize
> with you, however instead of trying to make a friend you are trying to
make
> an enemy here.

   I apologise, Dr. Huang. I went overboard. I had not slept since I heard
about your pollinator database. I do not wish to make enemies. So...after
finally getting some sleep...I will try to discuss this without any rancor.

   And of course I would link to your database anyway.  (When we sold honey
on the internet - which never amounted to much anyway - we linked that web
page to our best competitors.)

    I also have no delusions about The Pollination Home Page being my
livelihood. However, it has come to a point where something has to give. It
costs about a thousand dollars a year (and  lot of time), which I understand
is a bare bones kind of thing in the internet world, yet it is more than I
can afford to donate to the beekeeping world. So I had already decided that
the page must at least support itself.

   I have a strong aversion to advertisements on web pages. I HATE banner
adds, and had already concluded that if this kind of support is necessary, I
will close the page.

   My thought, which I had already discussed with several beekeepers, was to
allow them to "buy" a one page ad, which would come up for each state, ahead
of the free listings (which I would most certainly continue). The ad would
include a photo or two, and more explicit information about their outfit. I
would think some of the larger operators would be willing to spend the
income of one or two pollination hives for such an ad.

   But the base of those who would be willing to do this, would be certainly
be reduced, if there were other free listings available. And I've always
considered the pollinator list to be the core of the page.

> If your criticism is reasonable, then Bayer should not have developed
> Checkmite+ because Apistan was working so well 3 years ago. And John Hogg
> should not have developed the half comb because the ross-rounds are
already
> working well.

   I still do wish to point out (without animosity) that I am not arguing
against free enterprise. But if one of these competitors is supported by
public funding, it is no longer free enterprise.

> I even offered the
> possibility of giving you WHAT I HAVE

   Thank you for the offer. But I am not able to maintain a server here in
this rural area. I looked into this, when I was trying to get a web camera
on the entrance of a monitor hive to show when bees were carrying cotton
pollen (for pesticide applicators). I could set up a server and camera with
no problem, but  found that it would cost somewhere around $900 a month for
a line.

> By the way, please remove....

   Thank you for clearing up this mystery. I deleted her listing
immediately. I ran a word search of my e-mail for the past three years and
she does not appear in any of my mail. I had no idea what you were referring
to. Another e-mail lost in cyberspace, I suppose....

>You never answered me on
> this: when was your search engine started?

   I don't remember exactly; it was whenever Google started offering it.  I
honestly don't understand the point about a search engine being so
important. No state except perhaps California has so many listings that a
grower could not simply just scroll his state. And my index is cross
referenced whenever a pollinator indicates he is willing to work multiple
states.

   For all the folks on the bee list, this is a turning point for the
Pollination Home Page. While I appreciate it, please don't just write to
encourage me to continue (as some have done), because I cannot continue
without some changes.

   Let me tell you something of what I intended to do, and if you think this
is worthwhile, please give me some concrete suggestions as to how, and more
to the point, how to fund it. Without being ungrateful to those who have
made contributions, these have been too few and too small to make a
significant impact on keeping the page going.

   My intent for the future was to be (1.) a lot more emphasis on
pollination images, for which I receive a steady stream of those who want to
use them (for free, of course!), and I have always made them available for
educational use. I had thought there would be more requests for commercial
use, so that this could help support the page. Commercial requests have been
insignificant. A porno site simply appropriated one mating insect
image...      :o(

    (2.)  I had intended to do a lot more pesticide monitoring, to document
the effects of pesticide practices on domestic and wild pollinators. I want
to equip hives with (hopefully inexpensive) sensors and do a lot of
photography to show what is going on...  This seems to be an area, where
people employed by "the system" are afraid to go, probably fearing negative
effects on their jobs. I think there is some advantage (for the beekeeping
world) of an independent person doing it. (There's kind of a catch 22: if I
had a PhD, I might lose my job for some of the things I say, but if I don't
have the PhD, nobody believes me -neither of which affects the truth of the
statements.) If I can provide clear and precise documentation, it should
have more impact. Or at least nudge others within the "system" to do more
looking into this.

   (3)  I had intended to focus a lot more on other beneficial insects. The
effect of present day practices not only impact pollinators, but also many
other insects that are vital to the whole ecosystem. This is a whole world
that is pretty exciting for me. It is outside my practical experience, but
I've always been observant of beneficials.

   (4)  I had intended to produce a lot more educational material geared to
age levels for school use. We already have an amazing amount of school use;
I get a lot of e-mail from teachers, and I find more and more educational
resource pages are linking to my page. I think it's pretty important for a
child to know that the bee is a vital link in his or her life, even if Mom
hates it. I think the web page has had more impact than all the school
presentations I have done. I may be producing some educational CDs for sale
to help fund these efforts.

   How do other beekeeper webmasters do it?  Allen Dick has a tremendous
site, without selling anything. It must cost plenty, in time, if not cash,
and I've long since concluded that Allen does not sleep. Giles Ratia has
likewise, but I think he's full time, and the site must be his livelihood.
Herb at Midnite Bee has a very nice site, but does sell some things. Can
they possibly be enough to finance the site? It never was for us. Barry
Birkey's site is an outstanding, but I think underutilized, site by
beekeepers. He sells books, but that could not be a major source of
financing, could it?

   There are not many free sites left, mostly they are of the personal type,
like mine, so that they are simply financed personally. YahooGroups is one
large commercial site that apparently makes money by splashing banner ads,
which I absolutely despise. There are many communities there that I think
are a major source of information sharing in a number of field, including
beekeeping. But, as more and more people are adding ad blocking programs,
there are rumors that YahooGroups will soon be charging for their site. I
understand that they must make a profit, but I think it will be the death of
some good things.

   Given my dislike for ads, I guess I need to do more investigation of
grants. Not having been in that environment, I find the grant application
process quite intimidating. Any good tips?


Dave Green   SC  USA
The Pollination Home Page (Now searchable): http://pollinator.com