From: "Zachary Huang" <[log in to unmask]> > I feel your pain (at the prospect of losing your livelihood) and sympathize > with you, however instead of trying to make a friend you are trying to make > an enemy here. I apologise, Dr. Huang. I went overboard. I had not slept since I heard about your pollinator database. I do not wish to make enemies. So...after finally getting some sleep...I will try to discuss this without any rancor. And of course I would link to your database anyway. (When we sold honey on the internet - which never amounted to much anyway - we linked that web page to our best competitors.) I also have no delusions about The Pollination Home Page being my livelihood. However, it has come to a point where something has to give. It costs about a thousand dollars a year (and lot of time), which I understand is a bare bones kind of thing in the internet world, yet it is more than I can afford to donate to the beekeeping world. So I had already decided that the page must at least support itself. I have a strong aversion to advertisements on web pages. I HATE banner adds, and had already concluded that if this kind of support is necessary, I will close the page. My thought, which I had already discussed with several beekeepers, was to allow them to "buy" a one page ad, which would come up for each state, ahead of the free listings (which I would most certainly continue). The ad would include a photo or two, and more explicit information about their outfit. I would think some of the larger operators would be willing to spend the income of one or two pollination hives for such an ad. But the base of those who would be willing to do this, would be certainly be reduced, if there were other free listings available. And I've always considered the pollinator list to be the core of the page. > If your criticism is reasonable, then Bayer should not have developed > Checkmite+ because Apistan was working so well 3 years ago. And John Hogg > should not have developed the half comb because the ross-rounds are already > working well. I still do wish to point out (without animosity) that I am not arguing against free enterprise. But if one of these competitors is supported by public funding, it is no longer free enterprise. > I even offered the > possibility of giving you WHAT I HAVE Thank you for the offer. But I am not able to maintain a server here in this rural area. I looked into this, when I was trying to get a web camera on the entrance of a monitor hive to show when bees were carrying cotton pollen (for pesticide applicators). I could set up a server and camera with no problem, but found that it would cost somewhere around $900 a month for a line. > By the way, please remove.... Thank you for clearing up this mystery. I deleted her listing immediately. I ran a word search of my e-mail for the past three years and she does not appear in any of my mail. I had no idea what you were referring to. Another e-mail lost in cyberspace, I suppose.... >You never answered me on > this: when was your search engine started? I don't remember exactly; it was whenever Google started offering it. I honestly don't understand the point about a search engine being so important. No state except perhaps California has so many listings that a grower could not simply just scroll his state. And my index is cross referenced whenever a pollinator indicates he is willing to work multiple states. For all the folks on the bee list, this is a turning point for the Pollination Home Page. While I appreciate it, please don't just write to encourage me to continue (as some have done), because I cannot continue without some changes. Let me tell you something of what I intended to do, and if you think this is worthwhile, please give me some concrete suggestions as to how, and more to the point, how to fund it. Without being ungrateful to those who have made contributions, these have been too few and too small to make a significant impact on keeping the page going. My intent for the future was to be (1.) a lot more emphasis on pollination images, for which I receive a steady stream of those who want to use them (for free, of course!), and I have always made them available for educational use. I had thought there would be more requests for commercial use, so that this could help support the page. Commercial requests have been insignificant. A porno site simply appropriated one mating insect image... :o( (2.) I had intended to do a lot more pesticide monitoring, to document the effects of pesticide practices on domestic and wild pollinators. I want to equip hives with (hopefully inexpensive) sensors and do a lot of photography to show what is going on... This seems to be an area, where people employed by "the system" are afraid to go, probably fearing negative effects on their jobs. I think there is some advantage (for the beekeeping world) of an independent person doing it. (There's kind of a catch 22: if I had a PhD, I might lose my job for some of the things I say, but if I don't have the PhD, nobody believes me -neither of which affects the truth of the statements.) If I can provide clear and precise documentation, it should have more impact. Or at least nudge others within the "system" to do more looking into this. (3) I had intended to focus a lot more on other beneficial insects. The effect of present day practices not only impact pollinators, but also many other insects that are vital to the whole ecosystem. This is a whole world that is pretty exciting for me. It is outside my practical experience, but I've always been observant of beneficials. (4) I had intended to produce a lot more educational material geared to age levels for school use. We already have an amazing amount of school use; I get a lot of e-mail from teachers, and I find more and more educational resource pages are linking to my page. I think it's pretty important for a child to know that the bee is a vital link in his or her life, even if Mom hates it. I think the web page has had more impact than all the school presentations I have done. I may be producing some educational CDs for sale to help fund these efforts. How do other beekeeper webmasters do it? Allen Dick has a tremendous site, without selling anything. It must cost plenty, in time, if not cash, and I've long since concluded that Allen does not sleep. Giles Ratia has likewise, but I think he's full time, and the site must be his livelihood. Herb at Midnite Bee has a very nice site, but does sell some things. Can they possibly be enough to finance the site? It never was for us. Barry Birkey's site is an outstanding, but I think underutilized, site by beekeepers. He sells books, but that could not be a major source of financing, could it? There are not many free sites left, mostly they are of the personal type, like mine, so that they are simply financed personally. YahooGroups is one large commercial site that apparently makes money by splashing banner ads, which I absolutely despise. There are many communities there that I think are a major source of information sharing in a number of field, including beekeeping. But, as more and more people are adding ad blocking programs, there are rumors that YahooGroups will soon be charging for their site. I understand that they must make a profit, but I think it will be the death of some good things. Given my dislike for ads, I guess I need to do more investigation of grants. Not having been in that environment, I find the grant application process quite intimidating. Any good tips? Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page (Now searchable): http://pollinator.com