In message <[log in to unmask]>, Peter
Loring Borst <[log in to unmask]> writes
>Then how do you account for the fact that in an old hive, all of the
>wax (ie., brood comb, honey
>comb, burr and brace comb) -- all of it is dark brown or even black.
Not like me to disagree with you Peter, but one this one I tend to side
with Juanse.
1. I have never see such a hive which is still with bees in it where
everything is black or blackish, and comb which has never been bred in,
whilst it can get a bit old and discoloured, I have never seen to be
black or even near it.
However, blackening by mildew or similar can happen easily once the comb
is unoccupied, and this seems to be the mechanism for burr/honey storage
comb blackening at the side walls in particular.
2. The bees often lay in new wax even before the cell is fully extended.
This wax is usually natural in colour, often white, and in a hive where
there is no old wax to recycle the cappings on the first generation of
brood are very pale, not far from white.
Upon emergence of the very first generation of brood the cell walls and
base are uniformly brown. I am perfectly certain the larva/pupa did not
coat the walls with propolis. Yet the browning took place while the cell
was sealed.
3. A really old comb is like cardboard in consistency. Tough and
fibrous, and you can cut it with a bread knife and see the papery
material lining the cell walls and bases, sometimes the midrib is very
thick.
4. Each spring the bees have a good clear out prior to occupying old
comb for laying in. The fibrous dust is dumped outside the hive, often
at the corners of the entrance, and if you pick some up it has a variety
of consistencies. If it looks like cocoon material, feels like cocoon
material, then I reckon it probably IS cocoon material. In Pierco frames
the bases of the cells in colonies which are particularly diligant
spring cleaners goes back from black to translucent white (ok, only if
you have white Pierco, in answer to a comment I am sure someone would
have chipped in with).
5.Whilst I do not doubt the credentials of the authors of the report
referred to, I often ask myself about the agenda of the people preparing
such documents in a wide variety of contexts. There are commercial
interests and believers out there who attribute near magical properties
to propolis and will go to great lengths to offer evidence that this is
so and this one appears to me to be, at best, over egging it. Organic
wholegrain bread sandwich with a propolis and manuka honey filling
anyone? If you read the reports it will cure just about anything from
swine flu to piles. All good stuff for sure, but I remain sceptical of
just how good.
6. Yes, I do believe in a tiny near invisible varnish of propolis is
everywhere in the hive and there may indeed be some inside the cells
too, in particular you see the cells polished in their bases prior to
being in. I do not believe it to be the primary reason used combs go
dark. With new snow white polystyrene hive you see it more obviously
than in any other circumstance, as the internal colour changes to a
light yellow, greenish, or even orange, noticeable mostly between the
beads where they try to smooth it off by filling in the gaps.
>
>I submit that the entire inside of the hive is covered with propolis
>eventually, and that the bees
>cannot help but track it everywhere on their feet. This would account
>for the travel stain on fresh
>honey comb and it accounts for the gobs of propolis all over the
>openings of a hive that is being
>robbed.
Its not propolis. I melted some of that in a teaspoon. Its mainly wax
debris and dirt, initially bound together by water and a bit of honey.
No discernable propolis but some would definitely be present. Too many
dirty feet?
Wet wet wet here....lousy season too.
Murray
--
Murray McGregor
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