Gunnar, Mike, and others following this thread..a few comments from me.
 
On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, Gunnar Thygesen wrote:
 
> From: [log in to unmask] (Gunnar Thygesen)
>  Mike Quimby wrote:
>  Q> Would it be possible to use a standard deep box as a
>  Q> honey super during nectar flow that used only top bars or regular
>  Q> frames with starter foundation strips?  Would the bees just
>  Q> build cross bracing/random comb instead?  Or could one modify
>  Q> the box with an angled piece of wood on each end to encourage
>  Q> the "V" comb shape?
>
> No, it would not work. In 1984 when I began my beekeeping there was
> a drive in our association in Copenhagen, Denmark towards what was
> called frameless beekeeping. Each hive body contained 9 to 10 topbars
> 22 mm wide and with an equilateral triangular cross section, the edge
> pointing down had a groove aprox 5 mm deep and 2 mm width to hold a
> strip of foundation aprox 20 mm. The strips had a tendency to creep out
> and fall down and were therefore so to speak soldered to the bar with wax.
> The space between the bars was as normally between frames.
 
I have one tbh that I first built that has but 15 bars.  I estimated that
the colony should have those for overwintering, so I put a 10 bar shallow
super on top of that hive.  I made a queen excluder top bar that has comb
built down below it to maintain comb spacing.  The bees filled the super
very well with a small amount of comb attachment to the top of the 15 bar
hive.  Gunnar used a piece of wire to pull between the super and brood
chamber; I used a piece of nylon twine which worked well.  It helps to put
a partially drawn "bait" comb in the super.  I normally wouldn't super
except on this hive.  I have used some 5-bar deep supers on top of 20-bar
tbh's for queen rearing procedures.  I plan to put some 5-bar supers on
top of 5-bar nucs to get combs drawn next spring. If I understand Gunnar's
post, he made his tb's 20mm wide; mine are 35mm.  I cut a 1/4 in groove in
the tb and wax in about a half inch starter strip.  I've had no problem
with the starter strip coming loose.  My tb's are rectangular...35mm x
whatever thickness the wood came from: old pallets, scrap boards, siding,
etc.
 
<snip>
 
> because the theory said that this was the natural way for bees. Well,
> if each second of the bars were equipped with full sheets of foundation
> and the rest with strips it was possible to get the bees to go upwards
> using the full sheets as ladders. That was the way I started my beekeeping
> and it was very nice the first summer starting with swarms. But the next
> summer, what a mesh with a lot of swarming so I turned to the traditional
> way of beekeeping. It was also rather clumsy to inspect the hive as the
> bodies had to be separated by drawing a steel wire between the bodies
> and the combs did very easily break off the top bars.
 
I found that if I use a starter strip too wide, the bees may build a heavy
comb before it is attached to the bar firmly.  I had one comb break loose
from the top bar during the heat of the summer, broke loose of its own
weight.  If the combs get firmly anchored to the flat undersurface of the
tb, the comb should't break unless it is rotated around the long axis of
the tb.  That in itself makes it nice for harvesting honey:  brush the
bees off, hold the bar with comb over a pail, and rotate the bar.  Trim
the bar if necessary.  Put the bar back in the hive.
 
Allen's post about comb honey was good.  There should be a good market out
there for such honey.
 
But I like to press my honey out and keep the beeswax (I *do* like
beeswax).  I put the resulting liquid honey up in pint jars only and sell
it for $5.00US...probably too cheap???  I label it "Jim's Gourmet Honey",
tell my customers that it will probably be the best that they have ever
eaten, and they have all agreed thus far.  I'm just a small, sideliner
beekeeper who wants to build a clientel who comes to me, who tells others
of this special honey.
 
Swarming??? I hope to have a more "normal" spring this year to see what
happens here.  I'll try to pull bars as they are capped to give plenty of
room, but if I get swarms I won't fret...I'll put them to good use if I
get them.  If not, there are still a lot of hollow trees in the woods
nearby. :)
 
If I bore you, dear friends, with my commentary, I'm sorry...just hit the
delete button when you see my name. :)
 
Cordially yours,
 
Jim
 
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