In the antibiotic issue thread  we got a little off base,   Randy pointed out I use "provocative" words.  

Pondering it last night,  hes 100% correct.  I do.  What I think gets missed,  is that is discussion.  In this case many here choose to use "non confrontational" approaches.

Let me explain my thought.  Randy politely  sent me a link to the logical fallacy webpage.  I laughed at the link, as I find them quite humuorous.  Why is that?  Because it seems to me the whole concept is political correctness run amuck.  What is pointing out someone "logical fallacy?  It’s a wordsmithing way of telling them they are wrong,  and making a argumentive accusation.  Just "seemingly" non confrontational.   That’s where Randy and I depart.  I consider being accused of "cherry picking" to be the same or even worse than being told nonsense,  your wrong.  Apparently for some that seems to smooth it out.



Earlier in this thread,  I asked Randy not to spin me,  and then  he mentioned I used a straw man argument.  Honestly when you ponder it,  its exactly the same thing.  Just worded completely different.   Pete nicely pointed out "confirmation bias" Sounds sexy and non confrontational,  I didn't read it that way,  I read it as Pete saying what he ment,  I was wrong,  I was looking at it like I wanted to see it.  He had a point,  and I accepted it

 So what we have is a language barrier or difference,  as we have many.  It seems that some find it easier to accept it when its worded so you have to ponder it for a moment.  I can work on that,  I am not keen about needing to get 3 wall charts to replace 10 adjectives,  but I ordered them anyway...(see the website for your own translations)


That said,  I cannot understate my respect and appreciation for Randy for having the courage to say it clearly.  He could simply ignore it,  instead he knows me well enough to call me on it,  and there is no problem with it!  I am a big boy.

I like to think Randy and I are friends ( I don’t want to put words in his mouth)  we vist and talk  and email regularly  and my respect for what he has done, and continues to do for the industry is immense.  This industry is so far backwards it scares me,  but there are a couple of people trying like crazy to drag it forward,  Randy, Professor Bromenshenk, and Dennis are the 3 that are outstanding in this arena.  All with different views,  one research,  one education, and the other with ringing alarm bells, but all are trying and working hard to move the industry forward as a group.

I do suspect that Randy suffers from a huge educational bias,  it seems to me his writing here shows that.  He seems to assume we know what he does,  and I can't speak for all,  but in most areas hes so far ahead it scary. Only one way to address that,  and that’s to challenge him and ask.  I much appreciate him taking the time to respond, even when we disagree at the end. 
 Personally,  I have been trying pretty hard to explain my thoughts better,  and enjoy being pointed out my mistakes.  Cant fix them without knowing.  Petes comment the other day was valuable,  it was on SHB,  so I am seriously pondering if hes correct,  and making sure I am not subjecting myself to conformation bias.  



Towards that,  I ponder my position and thoughts a lot.  And maybe I am not the right person to do it,  but this group (beekeepers in general not Bee-l) suffers greatly from a influx if hyperbole,  otherwise known as nonsense.  Some of our leaders have no idea what the real pesticide and farming picture is,  even though we are a part of it.  WE say things and parrot them,  and want to start a battle with AG groups,  when we should be begging them for insight,  and learning from their techniques of research and growth.

I would like to see that change,  at the moment  I may not be good at it,  but I need a few years to figure out the plan.   We as a group need to quit being anti farming and that has to start with us.  In this case I disagree with many on the new feed directive.  Small farmers and beeks are hit,  large operations could care less.  That was my point simply stated.  But the picture is bigger.   Many here think organic farming will save things.  I disagree and can point out why those thoughts may be wrong.  Instead of discussing it most avoid the topic.  Afraid of being pointed out wrong.   One of the great things about Randy over the years,  is he is not like that.  We debate offline farming practices many times,  and always with open ears.  I still don't have in convinced on a few points,  but really appreciate that hes helped me mold the message so far,  and see clearly just how biased and mistaken via media myths that most non farmers actually are.

To that end,  I slip and say your wrong,  feel free to shoot back,  but please do the courtesy of explaining your point that’s my only request!  Lord knows I am wrong a lot, and I like it when my friends can tell me why.

Charles

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