Yes-not doubting benefits (however from reports I have heard first hand it
is for far too many a vacation)
The first major problem- can the same communication occur in different ways
just as well?
the answer to that is ABSOLUTELY! And it has never been easier.
The second major question-
In tough economic times can we afford the much more expensive solution when
a cheaper or free version is available that will do the job?
The answer is absolutely NO
Does the excess of high end conferencing look bad to struggling workers
in the field and the public?
YES
I know it is a tradition of long standing but it no longer seems to fit in
our present times when really good much less
alternatives exist.
So yes information exchange and learning is important- and yes you can do it
without high end conferencing.
So....simple....time to adapt....and we know what happens to those who do
not adapt!
Conrad Bladey
Archeologist
Peasant
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 4:32 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
One additional comment. There seems to be, not only a divide in economics
here, but a definite divide in understanding about the value of
conferences. For many archaeological technicians and people only
tangentially in the
field, it may seem that these are junkets, allowing owners and higher
level people in companies and academics to enjoy vacations at, what may
seem to
them, their expense.
Archaeology is a profession because people decide that it is important to
spend a lot of money and time getting an education in the field and
understanding the intricacies of why we should even care about the material
past.
New methods, new approaches, new ideas about the field are not sequestered
(to use a current term) in particular companies or academic departments,
but come from a wide range of brains scattered around the country and the
world. This information needs to be disseminated and picked up by others
and
tried and used and modified or the whole field of archaeology will
stagnate and have less and less value to anyone. Disseminating this
information
in journals and newsletters is one way of getting ideas out there, but
conferences are another, where people with these thoughts can get together
and
share the information and think of even better ways to move forward.
I know that I am preaching to the choir to some extent here, but perhaps
there are others who may begin to see value in more, not less interaction,
of all kinds. Yes it costs, but so does everything else in life. Spending
it on conferences or something else is a matter of priorities and how
important something is to someone.
Mike Polk
Sagebrush Consultants, L.L.C.
Ogden, Utah
In a message dated 5/16/2013 1:02:51 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Thanks David!
My feelings exactly
With the addition that funds now being directed toward conferences be re
directed to pay workers and extend the reach of research and conservation
Conrad Bladey
Peasant
-----Original Message-----
From: David L Cook
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:49 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
My apologies to anyone who doesn't care what I have to say and would
rather
abandon the listserv than choose to ignore an email.
Thanks Mark,
I understand your point, I can only speak from my own experiences. I and
many of my cohort/peers from archaeology as well as anthropology in
general
are struggling to find work or even afford a place to live. At that point,
suggesting that one drop a few hundred dollars on transportation,
membership, entry, food, childcare, etc to attend a conference to make
professional contacts and build a career is absurd. I may as well get a
job
as a fast food manager. I can start out making nearly the same income, I
don't have to pay to travel and schmooze to "get into the profession", and
I
won't need to travel 90% of my life away from family for a position that
may
end at anytime without notice. Of course, my passion isn't in burgers and
fries. Of course I have made my decisions to be an archaeologist because
it
is what I love. However, that doesn't mean I should stop expressing my
discontent with an elitist hierarchical system that, for me and many
students that I know, is inequitable
. I appreciate that many attendees are tired of receiving emails about
this
issue. I would recommend that they either recommend a better forum for
this
discussion to continue or do what they would do when any other topic that
is
of little interest to them is discussed: ignore it and move on. I am not
berating anyone's decision to go to conferences. I am only explaining how
even cheap registration doesn't make another hurdle in the archaeological
gauntlet much less burdensome(as there are numerous other related
expenses).
I do see the use of conferences, I just feel that the level of economic
and
temporal sacrifice in this field is rarely returned in economic form for
most of us by matter of course(90%+ is CRM, which is a hierarchical
pyramid).
Best,
David L Cook
On May 16, 2013, at 10:43 AM, "Branstner, Mark C" <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> David Cook stated:
>
> "Conferences remain unavailable to many, if not most, archaeologists and
> definitely to most students."
>
> I understand your meaning, but the fact is, your statement is largely and
> demonstrably false. The "Conference" system exists at all levels --
local,
> regional, national, and international -- and remains the fundamental
focus
> for face-to-face, peer-to-peer interaction for the exchange of
> information, and perhaps more importantly, the maintenance of the
> academic/social networks that are so critical to what we do.
>
> Local and regional conference are eminently available to ALL participants
> ... And these are the ideal venues for avocational types and students to
> familiarize themselves with the discipline, and to cut their professional
> teeth. It is these face-to-face encounters (and confrontations) that make
> all this electronic data sharing possible ... I would argue.
>
> I would point out the Midwest Historical Archaeology Conference -- a
> one-day annual meeting that is designed primarily for student
> participation (kudos to Michael Nassaney for mentoring). How about the
> always rambunctious Midwest Archaeological Conference or the Plains
> Conference? Generally affordable, accessible, and eminently worthwhile.
> And I assume that there are comparable venues throughout the country.
>
> Are national and international meetings too expensive? Perhaps, but
nobody
> HAS to attend these, and nobody has to attend them EVERY year ...
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> ___________________________________
>
> Mark C. Branstner, RPA
> Senior Historical Archaeologist
>
> Illinois State Archaeological Survey
> Prairie Research Institute
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> 209 Nuclear Physics Lab, MC-571
> 23 East Stadium Drive
> Champaign, IL 61820
>
> Phone: 217.244.0892
> Fax: 217.244.7458
> Cell: 217.549.6990
> [log in to unmask]
>
> "Mongo only pawn in game of life." Mongo.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/16/13 8:41 AM, "David L Cook" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> It is unfortunate that individuals cannot simply opt out of the
>> conversation rather than being removed from the listserv entirely.
Conrad
>> is being stubborn and refusing to accept a difference of opinion, but
>> every time someone opts out of the listserv HISTARCH becomes a little
>> less useful.
>>
>> Conferences remain unavailable to many, if not most, archaeologists and
>> definitely to most students. Regardless, I don't think they should be
>> eliminated entirely. I also don't think anyone cares too much about my
>> opinion. It saddens me each time I see someone withdraw from this
network
>> of communication.
>>
>> Best,
>> David L Cook
>>
>> On May 15, 2013, at 11:06 PM, Brian Mabelitini <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I for one have had enough of my inbox filling up with Conrad's stupid
>>> rants every time someone advertises a professional conference. HISTARCH
>>> is a great resource for the disciple, but I would like to please be
>>> removed from the listserv.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Brian Mabelitini
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 15, 2013, at 10:28 PM, "sent" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Again matters not who pays what- ok instead of wasteful outdated
>>>> extravagant conferences each and every one donate the same money to a
>>>> fund to preserve, and create jobs and help the resource-
>>>> IMHO that¹s where the money is needed and not in the stupid conference
>>>> industry.....just my opinion.....
>>>>
>>>> I condemn stupidity in the face of need and want unemployment and
>>>> homelessness and for me the work comes first not some silly
>>>> conference.....
>>>>
>>>> In our present economic climate such diversion of money to conferences
>>>> is cruel, inhumane ill advised- shame be on such waste!
>>>>
>>>> Remember doing with out conferences does not in any way mean limiting
>>>> communication and information exchange or learning.
>>>>
>>>> Having to find other less expensive forms would actually mean more
>>>> exchange and more communication
>>>>
>>>> Simply put EVOLVE
>>>> And have compassion for those out of work, for the resource and for
>>>> new students who's jobs and resources you are sucking up- just to
feel
>>>> good!
>>>>
>>>> Turn around now- the public is watching-people are doing without so
>>>> you can feel good
>>>>
>>>> Shame
>>>>
>>>> Conrad Bladey
>>>> Archeologist
>>>> peasant
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Lewis C Jones
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 10:03 PM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>
>>>> Conrad,
>>>> You argue that we should think of the homeless and unemployed as
>>>> getting rid of conferences is needed to preserve jobs, but the fact
>>>> remains that you don't have to go to a conference if you don't want to
>>>> and if you really believe that getting rid of conferences will create
>>>> jobs then you need to show us the research that supports this claim
as
>>>> I don¹t tend to feel that it is the case. All professions and I
>>>> consider anthropology a profession and not just a job, have
conferences
>>>> to exchange ideas and to get the latest information going on in the
>>>> field. Can we try and provide some of this electronically? Yes and it
>>>> is being done. But technology is not something that is altogether
user
>>>> friendly and to have the ability to do what you suggest would mean a
>>>> great amount of money to create the infrastructure needed. Are you
>>>> willing to provide that startup capital? Do you have any idea of what
>>>> it costs to have the technology along with the redundancy needed to
>>>> prevent potential
>> g
>>> li
>>>> tches and loss of connectivity that can occur with something as simple
>>>> as a solar flare ? Technology cannot at this time provide the same
>>>> access for large amounts of people to connect as a conference can and
>>>> does provide. I speak on this as someone who worked for over 15
years
>>>> in IT before going back to school to become an anthropologist. I
>>>> suggest that before you condemn us for attending conferences that
>>>> instead you come up with a viable alternative providing research and
>>>> data that shows that it can be done and done economically and without
>>>> needs to raise hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to
>>>> create the dedicated technology that would be needed to host such a
>>>> meeting. Yes the technology does exist but not at a price our
>>>> professional organizations could afford after all we don't have stock
>>>> holders or even a products that generates hundreds of millions of
>>>> dollars that would be needed. If your real complaint is that you
don't
>>>> go to conference's because yo
>> u
>>> t
>>>> hink it is too expensive, well then that is a valid argumen!
>>>> t for wh
>>>> y you don't attend, but that doesn't mean you have the right to vilify
>>>> and criticize those of us who save up to go to the few conferences we
>>>> choose to attend. I am not rich by any means and choose where and when
>>>> to go and choose based upon my interests. What we pay for conference
>>>> attendance is actually quite small compared to other professions. My
>>>> spouse is a veterinarian and when she attends a conference she pays
for
>>>> it, sometimes her clinic might help with travel, but the bulk of it is
>>>> on her and as a professional she is required to attend conference's
as
>>>> that is where she can learn about the newest information for her field
>>>> and gain continuing education -credit. Her cost for just the
>>>> conference is about 5 - 6 times what we pay and I am basing this on
the
>>>> non-student rate. Their hotel costs are higher as well and they
>>>> understand that it is part of being a professional. We are not the
only
>>>> profession with conferences, but we are one of the few that does try
to
>>>> keep the
>>
>>> co
>>>> sts low and look for venues and times that will make it more
>>>> affordable to all. As a student I have paid for my conferences and
>>>> there are times when I have volunteered to help to help lower my
costs
>>>> as well. But in the end it is my choice to go or not and no one makes
>>>> us pay to go to a conference it is something we choose to do and in my
>>>> case I choose to go because I feel it allows me to network and become
>>>> more closely connected with current and future colleagues and
>>>> collaborators on the work we should love to do because it is a
calling
>>>> and not a job.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lewis C Jones
>>>> PhD. Candidate IUB / Adjunct Faculty IUPUI
>>>> Indiana University
>>>> Anthropology Department
>>>> Student Building 130
>>>> 701 E. Kirkwood Avenue
>>>> Bloomington, IN 47405-7100
>>>> USA
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> tel:
>>>> fax:
>>>> mobile:
>>>> Skype ID:
>>>> (812) 855-1041
>>>> (812) 855-4358
>>>> (317) 490-2047
>>>> clovis_cathmor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Want to always have my latest info?
>>>> Want a signature like this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: HISTORICAL ARCHAEOLOGY [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>>>> sent
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:13 PM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>
>>>> Of course you can do what you want- but think of the unemployed, the
>>>> homeless and the needs of the resource before you attend or support
>>>> spending of this magnitude simply to communicate, which can be done
>>>> easily, simply-without great expense.
>>>>
>>>> Why are we creating jobs in the convention and entertainment industry
>>>> when our obligation is to create jobs in archeology and spend our
money
>>>> on our obligations to the resource. Absurd!
>>>>
>>>> If you stay away the only losers will be the fat cat hotel and
>>>> conference people-believe me they don¹t put THEIR money into
>>>> archeology!
>>>> Other equally wonderful channels of communication will easily take its
>>>> place- there will be no information lost, Just jobs maintained and
>>>> created- work can be funded, the resource needs addressed- or well
>>>> then you can just have a good time.....go figure...please!
>>>>
>>>> It is far too big a slice of funds available these days to remain so.
>>>> Our public deserves economy. We have to do more with less, we have
to
>>>> do the same with less. Cut now before we loose more jobs and
>>>> opportunities.
>>>>
>>>> Conrad Bladey
>>>> Archeologist
>>>> Peasant
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Timothy K. Perttula
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:20 PM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>
>>>> A lot of time and wasted e-mail ink has been spent discussing this
>>>> issue. It is a professional and personal decision about whether one
>>>> attends a conference like SHA or not. If someone doesn't want to
>>>> attend, so be it.
>>>>
>>>> It serves no purpose to castigate those that will choose to attend
SHA.
>>>> Those that do not intend to come to the conference: fine, we get it,
>>>> move on.
>>>>
>>>> There must be a better historical archaeology thread out there than
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Elizabeth Davoli <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: HISTARCH <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 2:18 pm
>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>
>>>> Berating colleagues for attending conferences has yet to eliminate
>>>> conferences.
>>>>
>>>> Some archaeologists choose to belong to organizations funded by the
>>>> collection of dues, others don't. Some BA/BS degree holders choose
to
>>>> enroll in a graduate program to earn a higher degree, others don't.
>>>> Some college graduate archaeologists choose a career with private
>>>> contracting firms, others choose a career in government (local, state,
>>>> or federal), and others choose to work in a completely different
field.
>>>>
>>>> If one chooses not to attend a conference, is there an expectation
>>>> that others must abide by that choice and not attend?
>>>>
>>>> Liz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2013 16:56:49 -0400, sent <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Again sacrificing jobs and research for the feel good of human
contact
>>>>> I cant see why this justifies such sacrifice.
>>>>> As you point out the job can be done with electronic communication
>>>>>
>>>>> We owe the public the most inexpensive solution and it has been
>>>> demonstrated
>>>>> that traditional
>>>>> conferencing is the most expensive solution for doing the same
>>>>> thing-
>>>>> communicating and discussing.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want face to face discover free good and easy skype
>>>>>
>>>>> If you want to exhange papers and even co author them use google
docs
>>>>>
>>>>> for recreation and travel- well use your own money- or volunteer to
do
>>>>> archeology in a nice setting
>>>>>
>>>>> Easy
>>>>>
>>>>> Conrad Bladey
>>>>> Archeologist
>>>>> Peasant
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:50 PM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>>
>>>>> I really have to weigh in here. I know what it was like to attend
>>>>> virtually no conferences early in my career and what it is like to
do
>>>> at
>>>>> least two
>>>>> per year now (ACRA and SHA, sometimes SAA). Both my business and my
>>>>> company's work has improved dramatically, with a lot of that due to
>>>> face to
>>>>> face
>>>>> interaction with people in the field. I have picked up many
>>>>> innovative
>>>>> ideas, made many changes in the way that I do work and just became
>>>>> more
>>>>> enthused with archaeology on a regular basis by attending and
>>>> participating
>>>>> (an
>>>>> important component - giving papers, participating in symposia,
doing
>>>>> posters, serving the organizations on committees and as officers,
>>>> etc. - I
>>>>> was
>>>>> chair of the 1999 SHA Conference in Salt Lake City).
>>>>>
>>>>> While I have not expected to generate new work from these
attendances,
>>>> it
>>>>> has happened over the years. I also have, no doubt, that there have
>>>> been
>>>>> projects we have done that have been the result of farther flung
>>>>> connections made at conferences that I have no idea came from there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Electronic communication is wonderful and a great way to share
>>>>> specific
>>>>> information and keep in touch, but humans are humans. There is no
>>>>> substitute for person to person interaction, body language,
>>>>> interacting
>>>>> with
>>>> multiple
>>>>> people at once, experiencing the book room, personally interacting
>>>>> with
>>>>> people who create posters, the venue and city in which the
conference
>>>> is
>>>>> held. Getting to know archaeologists, historians, architectural
>>>> historians
>>>>> and
>>>>> others over the years has enhanced my understanding of and joy in the
>>>>> profession, made my work better, and generated friendships for my
wife
>>>>> (also an
>>>>> archaeologist) and myself that I would not trade for all of the
>>>> electronic
>>>>> communications available, hands down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Polk
>>>>> Sagebrush Consultants, L.L.C.
>>>>> Ogden, Utah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 5/15/2013 2:05:07 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
>>>>> [log in to unmask] writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly it is black and white that is why it is so important. We
have
>>>> more
>>>>> ways to promote interaction other than conferencing than ever in
>>>>> history-why are we using this expensive method which takes jobs and
>>>>> detracts from our ability to
>>>> address
>>>>> the research?
>>>>>
>>>>> Communication is communication- all the things you mention can be
>>>>> generated by electronic communication-its easy-
>>>>>
>>>>> It is like people are insisting that we put our postal mail back on
>>>> horses
>>>>> and stage coaches because it feels better- terrible foundation for
>>>>> the
>>>>> argument for communication!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Conrad Bladey
>>>>> Archeologist
>>>>> Peasant
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Kimberly Wooten
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:36 PM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>>
>>>>> That's your black and white argument. I think the flip side being
>>>>> that
>>>>> attendance at conferences generates new ideas, enthusiasm, and
>>>>> professional contacts, all of which lead to funding and preservation
>>>> opportunities, and
>>>>> if I enjoy myself, regardless of the personal finical decisions I
>>>> make to
>>>>> attend a conference (locally or internationally), so much the
better.
>>>> VTCs
>>>>> are another option, happen frequently where I work, and are often
>>>> employed
>>>>> in conjunction with professional meetings. The point of my message
>>>> was to
>>>>> be
>>>>> supportive of a peer charged with the task of promoting an important
>>>>> conference. Kimberly
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 14:10:36 -0400
>>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the fun and travel is worth limiting funding, employment and
>>>>> necessary
>>>>>> conservation and fieldwork?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look into the many ways you can do really clear visual and audio
>>>>>> conferencing-free
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Conrad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you in advance for your prompt response!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 15, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Kimberly Wooten
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me try this again... As archaeologists, it is almost a given
>>>> that
>>>>>>> most of us are not living the high life. I admit it can be a
>>>> financial
>>>>>
>>>>>>> strain on my family to attend a conference, but we choose to do
>>>> this;
>>>>> we
>>>>>>> can't always attend annually and are careful with those meetings
>>>> we do
>>>>>>> attend. The SHA meetings in York, England, several years ago were
>>>>>>> wonderful and nothing can compare to meeting people face-to-face,
>>>>> having
>>>>>>> my enthusiasm for my chosen field renewed by this contact and
some
>>>>>>> excellent presentations, all wrapped in the bonus visiting
>>>> beautiful
>>>>>>> places. Technology has its important uses, but its limits as
>>>> well. I
>>>>> for
>>>>>>> one, will be happy to attend the meetings in Quebec City.
Kimberly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 01:17:50 +0000
>>>>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>> Subject: Why YOU should come to SHA Quebec 2014
>>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See the Society for Historical Archaeology¹s latest blog, ³Why
>>>> YOU
>>>>>>>> should come to Quebec in 2014²
>>>>>
>>>>>
http://www.sha.org/blog/index.php/2013/05/why-you-should-come-to-quebec
>>>>> -
>>>> in-2014/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> William Moss
>>>>>>>> Conference Chair / 47th Conference on Historic and Underwater
>>>>>>>> Archaeology Président du Comité organisateur / 47e Colloque sur
>>>>>>>> l'archéologie historique et subaquatique
>>>>>>>> www.sha2014.com<http://www.sha2014.com/>
>>>>>>>
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