>Heather that is a big BUT!
>
>I don't believe I am 'fudging' anything, nor did I say it to make 
>people feel better. My post was in reply to a comment about 'correct 
>language'. OMS has a very wide definition of breastfeeding and I 
>agree with them.
>
>Heather, why is there a but? They are breastfeeding, period. You, 
>yourself, warn against categorising.


Well.....I warned against categorising  mothers' *reasons* for 
breastfeeding/breastmilk feeding.....I am somewhat in favour of 
categorising different ways of getting breastmilk into babies, 
otherwise how the heck are we gonna know what we are talking about?!

That doesn't mean I think women should be judged, criticised or disparaged.

>
>I have not said anywhere that at-the-breast-feeding and 
>expressed-milk-feeding are the same - I said that they are both 
>breastfeeding.


They may be 'the same' for research and international policy 
purposes, but they are not 'both breastfeeding' , and if they have 
the same *name*, it does rather make them sound the same :)

I don't mind a bit if individual women who are breastmilk-feeding 
(and their HCPs in dialogue with them)  use the term 'breastfeeding' 
to cover what they are doing. But on a list like this one, and in 
debates where we discuss the strategy, tactics, education and 
generality of infant feeding, we should use the correct terminology.

>
>
>>by this than by a pretence that what they are doing is 'the
>>  same' and that the difference doesn't matter.
>
>I was quite offended by that - I did not say it. If this comes 
>across in my post, then please point out where and I shall edit.


You said "I believe that emphasising the difference between breast 
milk feeding and breast feeding is discriminatory against those of us 
who simply cannot enjoy a 'normal' breastfeeding relationship" and it 
was this, along with your strong feeling that we should call both 
breastfeeding and breastmilk feeding  the same thing, that made me 
believe that you are aiming to minimise the difference between 
breastmilk feeding and breastfeeding....not just with individual 
mothers, but generally. I don't want to offemd you, and I would not 
emphasise the difference to mothers.
>
>>their equally
>>  wonderful gift is their *presence* at the time of the feeding.
>>  Breastmilk feeding needs to be done *as if the mother was
>>  breastfeeding direct* when possible.
>
>This comment makes me think  you do not know the reality of 
>exclusive or predominant pumping - on facebook there is a photo 
>going around of a baby in a rocker being bottle fed by a mother who 
>is also pumping. I have been there and done that and was not proud 
>of it - but there are only 24 hours in a day, especially if you have 
>other children - this is often the reality of expressing. There may 
>be some EPers who are so efficent they can fill a chest freezer (and 
>they are obviously the ones who talk about it loudly, not the ones 
>who struggle to make enough to be one bottle ahead, or who never 
>make cover their child's nutritional needs and supplement. I don't 
>know how many times  I was a 'wonderful presence' - rarely I would 
>think. My husband and I were both sleepless zombies in the early 
>months, I would pump and pass the bottle to him and he would feed 
>the baby - every couple of hours. I only mention my personal 
>experience as it's something parents are reticent to talk about. It 
>is painful to know that you were NOT a wonderful presence who bonded 
>through bottle feeding.


Yes, I can understand it is painful to know that - but  are you 
saying on Lactnet we cannot say (as I did) 'Breastmilk feeding needs 
to be done as if the mother was breastfeeding direct when 
possible'????  I don't want to cause anyone pain, but there is 
nothing 'wrong' with what I said, and Lactnet should be a safe place 
for me to say it.

No parent can ever be wonderful all the time, and we have Winnicott 
to thank for the concept of the 'good enough' parent and for the 
notion that not being wonderful all the time is actually beneficial 
to our children :)


>
>Having parents who feel alone, excluded and crying into their pumps 
>(I am not exaggerating) because they feel like failures, is not a 
>good outcome.

Of course it isn't....

>Parents proud to be pumping would be a good outcome.


Yes! I am, however, also in favour of people having good information, 
and that includes parents knowing that it's not all about the milk 
(however it's done...and whatever the milk is) and enabling them to 
value themselves as more than milk suppliers (whatever the milk is). 
I am certain you feel the same :)


>  Currently, I use;
>
>Breastfeeding, umbrella term (as defined by OMS)
>followed by the subcategories;
>
>at-the-breast-feeding and expressed-milk-feeding - for those times 
>when we need to know the details.
>Look forward to hearing thoughts on that.

That's ok by me - there are times we do need to know the details and 
we do need to label, so we know what each of us is talking about :)

Heather Welford Neil
NCT bfc, tutor, UK
-- 

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