On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 12:43 PM, randy oliver <[log in to unmask]>wrote:


> Absolutely right Stan!  But important factors to consider are the strength
> of binding to soil particles, the biolavailablity of the bound compound,
> and its potential to bioaccumulate (DDT's main problem).  Not discounting
> your concerns, just  helping to explain.


Sorry Rangy, but I am not seeing what it explains, although I tried.
I google scholared "binding to soil" with both  DDT and Clothianidin.  Got
lots of hits for DDT, none for clothianidin.  Do you know good study on
this for it?

Got lots of hits for bioavailability with clothianidin, but nothing
indicating it was in some bound unavailable state in the soil that would
alleviate my concerns.  Do you know of some other studies,  field studies
would be nice as you always say,  that follow the take up of plants in the
years following a dose of clothianidin at the high rate on a potato
field?   For instance more studies like the one we were discussing in
Europe would help with my concerns (done on a potato field or test plot
that got the giant loading of potatoes, not the tiny wheat field loading
that was posted in the European graphs).

Bioaccumulation and clothianidin gave eight pages of results.  Some on
biaccumulation in wax and bee products.  While it is not the problem that
DDT was, I would not agree that was DDT's *main* problem.  I would think
that it was its long half life 5-15 years (not that different than the EPA
gave for clothianidin).

But if those studies do not exist, and if the regulators have not asked for
followup on succeeding crops, there is one thing I found that intrigued
me.  It seems that now you can use ELISA based methods to determine levels
of imidacloprid or clothianidin in many products and they are at least (if
not more) accurate as HPLC determinations and much cheaper (HPLC was over
$150 per sample last time I checked and required you to pay for a minimum
of a lot of samples of one type because of the calibration costs).   Does
anyone on this list know where a person could send samples for ELISA
testing of clothianidin?  Do you know Jerry?

Stan

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