Hello Debra,
You have been quiet for several months.
See the ATTACHMENT to this note about my giving up all DEEPS and switching to
all medium (6 5/8") supers 20 years ago. I wish I had started with ALL
MEDIUM SUPERS in 1933 instead of deeps.
About half of my "students" over the last 15 years have selected all mediums
rather than deeps, and most of the "students" are 30-50 year old men.
It is easy to switch in the spring, but you can't do anything now.
George Imirie
Certified EAS Master Beekeeper
George's PINK PAGES
Which is the BEST Size Hive?
For most of the past century, the most popular size box was 9 5/8" deep and
commonly referred to as a "deep". Filled with 10 frames of wax, it weighs about 20
pounds, but about 90 pounds when filled with honey. This was pretty heavy for many
people, so near the beginning of the 20 century, the Dadant company in Illinois started
making the 6 5/8" medium size box, commonly referred to as an "Illinois", or a
"Westerlie" on the West Coast. Filled with 10 frames of wax, it weighs about 14
pounds, and about 55 pounds when filled with honey. Lastly, there was the 5 11/16"
box, commonly called a "shallow". Filled with 10 frames of wax, it weighs about 12
pounds, and about 45 pounds when filled with honey.
Maybe WEIGHT is very important to you, particularly when it is up high and filled
with lots of live bees. Of MUCH GREATER importance is the fact that the frames in each
box are NOT interchangeable with the frames in either of the other sizes. Hence, you
can't move a deep frame from the brood chamber into a Illinois honey super or a Shallow
honey super; or vice-versa.
Is it a scientific fact that a deep box is the size selected by bees and the queen
for use as a brood area; or equally that foraging bees selectively prefer a shallow or
Illinois size box? Of course NOT! Back in the days of skeps (before Langstroth built
the first removable frame hive), the central wax combs of the skep contained brood
while those combs containing honey were the smaller outer combs. Hence, the deep
box was thought to be the volume size (1.4 cubic feet) of most brood areas, and the
average size wax honey comb were smaller pieces about 4" x 4". The original honey
super (before extractors were built) was just 4 3/4" deep and held 28 4"x4" basswood
sections for comb honey. Upon the creation of the extractor, the 5 11/16" shallow
box holding ten 5 3/8' frames was created. These two sizes, the 9 5/8" deep and
5 11/16" shallow were the accepted standards for years, based on the single criteria
of "that is what Daddy used".
Almost 20 years ago (when heavy weight was NOT important to me), I discontinued
using any deep bodies or shallow bodies, and started using just ONE SIZE box, the 6 5/8" Illinois, for brood area and honey supers! I did this for ONE SINGULAR REASON: To have
just one size frame that was interchangeable in any place, brood area or honey area. Not
having to be concerned about having a frame to fit, saved me many a mad day. The comb
space of 30 frames in 3 Illinois bodies is almost exactly the same amount of comb space
of 20 frames in 2 deep bodies. Hence I use 3 Illinois boxes as brood chambers in place of
2 deep boxes. In the Illinois size frame of 6 1/4", I make cut comb honey, extracted honey,
and even 4" x 4" basswood section honey ( to recall my start in 1933). I wish I had been
smart enough when I began beekeeping in 1933 to use "only Illinois boxes and just one size frame" instead of "battling" with different frame sizes for almost 50 years. Now, in
addition to the advantage of having a single size frame, with my stroke disablement, I definitely appreciate the smaller weight of the Illinois as compared to the deep.
Incidentally, the shallow is slowly being discontinued by many equipment makers
because of diminishing sales, and the fact that more and more beekeepers are adopting
my program of "ALL-ILLINOIS". Maybe it would be wise for you to consider this program.
Ask Ernie Miner about his position. He has told me that if he were not in the bee equipment
business, he would do exactly what I have done: Have just one size frame, a universal
frame, by using "ALL-ILLINOIS". Ask him.
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Wax or Plastic Foundation?
At the recent American Beekeeping Federation meeting in Fort Worth whose audience
was largely commercial beekeepers, one of the principal speakers asked for a show of
hands of those who had switched to plastic foundation versus those who still continue
to use wax foundation. I think that everyone in the room (about 200) was surprised when
the vote revealed that about 50% are now using plastic foundation. The results initiated
a discussion about using plastic frames of plastic comb; but very few were satisfied
with these frames because of expense and lack of strength
I switched my entire brood foundation and extracted honey foundation to Dadant's
Plasticell Foundation almost 20 years ago, and I strongly wish I could have done it 68
years ago! No wiring of the frame; just snap it in place; it will not sag or bend; you
almost can NOT break it even with force; and if you desire to destroy some comb on
it, for example drone comb, just scrape it off with a hive tool and give it back to the
bees who will rebuild it with beautiful worker comb. Plasticell is a Dadant product
and not available from other equipment makers. Ask Ernie about Plasticell - he thinks
it is wonderful too.
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