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Actually I would argue that we do create for the market...but our markets 
are larger than our visitation.  Our market includes the visitor, but it 
also includes the funder - so we take a particular stance when selling an 
idea to NSF or any other granting agency.  And while we certainly are 
looking at involving all types of marketing earlier in our decisions we 
have yet to effectively do that.  However, in one manner we have always had 
a marketing component within our exhibition development.  Our grant writers 
& fund raisers, have always strongly influenced what we do...because if we 
didn't get the grant or raise the funds, then we didn't do the project.

-William Katzman

William Katzman			[log in to unmask]
Director of Exhibits			(828) 322-8169 x307
Catawba Science Center		(828) 322-1585 (fax)
"Try not to become a man of success, but rather to become a man of value" 
-A. Einstein





-----Original Message-----
From:	Eric Siegel [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent:	Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject:	Re: marketing

ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology Centers
Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related 
institutions.
************************************************************************  
*****

All this is not what I meant.  Rather, I was differentiating the for
profit's requirement to design products for the marketplace from a
nfp's more complex set of motivators for the design of our product.
This relates to the input of marketing info in the design and
development of programs and exhibitions, vs the participation of
marketing staff in selling the exhibition.  For decades, museum people
have been talking about having marketing info being central to
exhibition and program development.  Is anyone out there doing this?
Probably very few if any.

Whereas any product development team in the for profit world that
didn't have marketing people as major participants would be considered
to be a dinosaur, not in keeping with modern management understanding.

There are many reasons for this, but one is the different motivators
for why nfp's do things.  The marketplace is not the principal driver,
but one among many, whereas in the for profit world the market is (or
should be) the principal driver.

Hope I've clarified.


Eric Siegel
Executive VP
    Programs and Planning
NY Hall of Science
47-01 111th Street
Queens, NY 11368
www.nyscience.org
On Mar 30, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Edith Piaf wrote:

> ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of Science-Technology
> Centers
> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related
> institutions.
> ***********************************************************************
> ******
>
>  
> 	you have reason, you are correct. marketing whether it be profit or
> non-profit must be creative. education is a form of marketing although
> we do not see it that way. when we educate, we are selling our
> knowledge and we are selling our pedagogy and if it is not efficient
> or does not help people learn, they will not want to enrol in our
> classes or come to our museums, conferences etc. if a university has
> no students, it cannot run. if a museum has no patrons it cannot run.
> therefore you are so right that creativity is important. however,
> whether in profit or non-profit we should not sell disney when we mean
> to sell hard science. there is an aspect of ethics that we must oblige
> to. excellent exchange
> Edith
>
>
>> De: Lisa Jo Rudy <[log in to unmask]>
>> A: [log in to unmask]
>> Objet: marketing
>> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:59:41 EST
>
>> <pre>ISEN-ASTC-L is a service of the Association of
>> Science-Technology Centers
>> Incorporated, a worldwide network of science museums and related
>> institutions.
>> **********************************************************************
>> *******
>>
>> I once worked with a museum marketing director whose mantra was "I
>> bring 'em
>> in the door.  It's up to you to educate 'em."
>>
>> Not sure whether that's a good and appropriate approach, but it
>> worked for
>> him.  And he did a great job of bringing 'em in.
>>
>> The only concern I'd have is not bringing 'em in under false pretences
>> (offering them Disney and giving them an academic presentation on
>> scientific
>> inquiry).
>>
>> And of COURSE it's important to market!  It's not as if non-profits
>> were
>> living off a guaranteed dole.  There's an expectation on everyone's
>> part that
>> earned revenue will be a major part of a museum's operating budget,
>> which means
>> that the income MUST be earned.
>>
>>  Most museums make a lot of their $ at the door, with the lion's
>> share from
>> school groups.  That means marketing to families and schools, and
>> selling them
>> a product that offers a good "bang for the buck."   For schools, that
>> means a
>> nice package that meets guidelines, manages the process, and provides
>> a
>> positive experience for all.  For families, it means a nice blend of
>> education and
>> entertainment that's suitable for all ages, along with appropriate
>> and pleasant
>> amenities like decent rest rooms, edible food, trained staff, etc.
>>
>> To my mind, all of this is perfectly reasonable and appropriate.  Of
>> course,
>> it doesn't exclude the possiblity of some really innovative, creative
>> new
>> product to market...!!
>>  Having also taught social marketing and non-profit marketing, i
>> agree that
>> certain products are not necessarily delivered to those with means,
>> for the
>> simple fact that there is a social marketing mission as opposed to
>> pure profit.
>> however, to some degree, in the case of museums and some non-profit
>> organisations a certain degree of the marketing concept that you
>> speak of in your first
>> paragraph is necessary. for example, the Sierra Club has to market to
>> environmentally conscious people in order to obtain membership. The
>> National Space
>> Society must market to space advocats, so therefore, there is some
>> degree of
>> marketing concept even in the non-profit sector. however in the
>> social service
>> sector the degree of marketing concept becomes nil. i hope this is
>> clearer. edith
>>
>> Lisa Jo Rudy, Writer/Consultant
>> 625 Chelten Hills Drive
>> Elkins Park, PA 19027
>> <a
>> href=http://www.lisarudy.com/>http://www.lisarudy.com/</a>215-635
>> -9735
>>
>> **********************************************************************
>> *
>> More information about the Informal Science Education Network and the
>> Association of Science-Technology Centers may be found at <a
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>> </pre>
>
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